Taranto Fail… What next in the Med?

[low_roller]

So I have just started playing G40 and in my two turns on the Allied side we have failed to roll well in a Taranto raid using all naval ships able and flying in fighters. What would your next move be in the Med. after you have lost all units involved in the Taranto raid and left the Battleship?

Please be kind. First post and very new to the game.

[Imperious Leader]

what UK units you brought in?  What was the bid?

[MarshmallowofWar]

Bad dice happen.

Since you committed to your build before the combat round per the rules, if the build includes an MIC placing that in Egypt would be bad since you really have little hope of holding Egypt without a fleet. I would say that you should not place the factory at all this round – hold it for placement in a later round (hopefully you activate Persia in non-combat on UK1 and then on UK2 you can place the factory there).

Since you are moving before the Italians you have two options with Egypt:

1. stack it with everything you can to keep Italy out of the Middle East
2. fall back to Trans-Jordan to keep Italy out of the Middle East

Each has its merits, but I would choose the former because Italy cannot take Egypt this round amphibiously. Then, Italy is forced to split their ground forces, and while they can still force you out of Egypt you get to detroy part of its army advantageously if they do move into Trans-Jordan/Syria on I1. As long you activate Persia properly in non-combat with an infantry and an artillery you can take Iraq out on UK2 to keep Italy from getting free units out of a Middle East presence, so even if your primary plan of killing Italians in Trans-Jordan goes badly you still have a viable attack on Iraq.

You also need to plan next turn to build at the South African factory. With the MIC in South Africa and the MIC in Persia to deal with, Italy cannot make much headway and also hold Egypt long term.

Nice thing about an MIC in Persia – units produced there can go three different directions and still be useful!

Marsh

[simon33]

There’s a few different scenarios here. Lost all attackers but Italians kept the BB? Lost BB but just kept the TT? Was the CV used as most people do?

If not on the latter, I’d be inclined to use it as a blocker if you have one in SZ96.

If you assume we are talking about a where there is no chance of a blocker protecting Egypt and at least 2TTs are left for Italy but the starting UK TT has carried two units away and the Mec has driven away, Egypt is unlikely to be able to be held. Only 4 inf+tank+art are available and you need to use one inf as a blocker to stop Tobruk mobile units. If you assume 2inf 1art 1tank + Cruiser bombardment + Bomber = 68% chance of taking the territory. BB bombardment increases it to 79%. The tank, it can be argued should be evacuated - depends heaps on how many troops are left in Ethiopia. It probably still wouldn’t allow the Italians to divert an amphibious assault to TransJordan.

All you can do is pray that you get lucky and if not that you can bring back the Mec and then also get lucky.

If you have bought an IC you might have to place it Scotland, unless you feel you have a good possibility of taking Egypt back.

One thing I would attempt UK2 if Egypt has fallen and I have no possibility of taking it back is hitting Iraq so at least the can’t mobilise those units for their army. If you aren’t playing BM or Vichy hasn’t been activated you can use the Syrian French troop to slow down Iraq’s activation by a turn. It could be worth amphibiously landing a troop in Transjordan otherwise, although you are losing 10IPC doing it - the TT will be sunkt by planes unless Italy has lost a bunch. Even if Italy can’t activate Iraq I2, you have to make sure they can’t do it I3 and the troop from West India can’t reach. Assuming you amphibiously hit Ethiopia but there aren’t enough troops to hit Egypt, you can use that TT to position in South Africa and then hit Iraq UK3.

You have to worry that an IC in Persia could not be held.

I’m assuming that the TT in the Med moved on Combat Movement. If not, you have a lot of other possibilities, particularly reinforcing Egypt with troops from Malta.

I think I’ve given a few thoughts there. Effectively, without Egypt the Med and then Africa are in serious trouble and you have to think about whether you can even hold South Africa which can be hit amphibiously. With the UK income there it is worth trying to find a way to contain it. No question in my mind that you shouldn’t just give up an IC there though.

@Marshmallow:

Bad dice happen.

Since you committed to your build before the combat round per the rules, if the build includes an MIC placing that in Egypt would be bad since you really have little hope of holding Egypt without a fleet. I would say that you should not place the factory at all this round – hold it for placement in a later round (hopefully you activate Persia in non-combat on UK1 and then on UK2 you can place the factory there).

That is not legal. You can only hold units which were inadvertently bought and can’t be placed. Kreighund has clarified this.

[Karl7]

Surrender.

[siparo]

Is your opponent new as well or seasoned?

Build the MIC in Egypt since you don’t have a choice and protect as best as possible. Consider placing 20 IPC’s in Egypt units on UK2 and a transport, infantry, and artillery in S. Africa. This way you’ll have sometching to take it back with if he barely takes it on turn 3.

Also, turtle up India and send your India fleet and your India fighters and tactical towards Egypt so they can be used in an assault to retake Egypt if necessary.

Best of luck!

[aequitas-et-veritas]

Welcome to the Forum low_roller.
Like Karl allready said, the very best option is about to surrender.

If you and your Opponent are new to the game, you may try to build up forces (mech plus Tanks) in S.Africa and shuck ,shuck it to Egypt and try to slowly build a couple of Navy (DD’s plus Subs).
But Italy will come hard and fast without mercy and finally become a Monster.
The US will be no help since your Opponent will delay a JDOW till round three or four.

[taamvan]

For future reference, the Strategic Bomber from London and up to 1 fighter from there can also come;  you may have undercomitted this attack.

[MeinHerr]

Fighter from Scotland cannot make it to Taranto party , sorry.

[MeinHerr]

Thousand Apologies, it can make it!

Just checked map.

(Even more impt. Taranto if done, UK must pay heavily.)

[Resident]

Got a question for defending against Taranto as Axis. Does it make sense for Germany to fly a fighter down to Southern Italy to bump up the scramble value from 2 to 3?

[MarshmallowofWar]

Absolutely, but it makes no sense to do the scramble unless the UK goes light on the attack. You are better off hitting the remaining UK fleet in sea zone 97 on G2 with the entire Luftwaffe.

Marsh

[Imperious Leader]

Taranto is a no brainer if you commit all the units in range, however i don’t know what bid was received or given, which makes a huge difference. The proper reaction is for Germany to try and destroy all UK naval assets around UK. Also, never play the attack if Germany builds transports and Carrier for Sealion. You need those units protecting UK.

[MarshmallowofWar]

@simon33:

@Marshmallow:

Since you committed to your build before the combat round per the rules, if the build includes an MIC placing that in Egypt would be bad since you really have little hope of holding Egypt without a fleet. I would say that you should not place the factory at all this round – hold it for placement in a later round (hopefully you activate Persia in non-combat on UK1 and then on UK2 you can place the factory there).

That is not legal. You can only hold units which were inadvertently bought and can’t be placed. Kreighund has clarified this.

Interesting. But frankly, if I lost Taranto due to bad dice I might forget to place any units out of shock.

Marsh

[simon33]

What I wrote was slightly wrong. You never hold units - you only return them for a refund. The part Kreighund clarified is that you can’t deliberately cause a situation where you can’t place.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

@Karl7:

Surrender.

If the Axis takes Egypt on the first or second round and can hold it tightly, the game is over.  They can proceed to march into the Middle East and the Caucasus, swelling the income into something too high.  I personally surrender in such a situation.

[MarshmallowofWar]

What if it’s Meinherr and he blew the entire German air force clearing out Egypt so that Italy could walk in. Do you think the loss of the Luftwaffe would make the game viable? It’s doubtful that I would give up under those circumstances, because frankly Germany hosed itself there in my opinion.

Marsh

[Private-Panic]

I recently played in a game where my UK ally did lose at Taranto, with a -58 ipc loss on the battle.

Italy retained 2 TTs and immediately took Egypt. My ally and I continued the game and lost in ten rounds.

I believe the only possibility of turning the game around needed to begin with allied fleet off Gib, which required such an investment against the vast resources that G and It had at their disposal that J would get an easy ride. To my mind the asymmetric victory conditions meant that R had to be saved (or Rome or Egypt taken) to deny an axis victory in Europe.

My ally did not share that conclusion so we never pursued it with the focus it would have needed. Of course if we had done so we might have lost in less than ten rounds!

[low_roller]

Hey All! (sorry for having to use full names for some units, I haven’t picked up on all the short hand for them yet)

Thanks for some good advise (i.e. surrender  :-D). I realize now that I could have added in the fighter from Gilbralter.

What I had been using was the Fighter from Malta and all sea and air units from SZ 98 giving me 1 fighter, 1 tac bomber, 1 AC, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer. (I move the transport down to SZ 81 so that it would be safe from Italian fighters)

The first time I did this there were only the two Italian fighters scrambled and I just barely lost. The second game I tried this there was a German fighter added and I lost by quite a bit leaving the battleship and all 3 scrambled fighters.

It is very tough to keep Italy in check after giving them the Mediterranean bonus and losing that whole naval fleet. I like the idea of purchasing mec inf and a tank or two on the first turn with the plan of putting them in UK to hold off a sea lion threat but being able to place some of those in South Africa if Taranto  fails.

I will keep reading up and I really appreciate all the help and humor.

[low_roller]

@Private:

I recently played in a game where my UK ally did lose at Taranto, with a -58 ipc loss on the battle.

Italy retained 2 TTs and immediately took Egypt. My ally and I continued the game and lost in ten rounds.

I believe the only possibility of turning the game around needed to begin with allied fleet off Gib, which required such an investment against the vast resources that G and It had at their disposal that J would get an easy ride. To my mind the asymmetric victory conditions meant that R had to be saved (or Rome or Egypt taken) to deny an axis victory in Europe.

My ally did not share that conclusion so we never pursued it with the focus it would have needed. Of course if we had done so we might have lost in less than ten rounds!

In my first game where I lost Taranto (3rd game overall) I was able to win but it took 19 turns. We were all pretty new to the game so mistakes were made EVERYWHERE.