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Transport in hostile SZ
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Like Colt I believe that it is an illegal move. Sometimes we don’t always play exactly by the rules and we let some things slide, like making a non-combat move during the combat movement phase. If you played by the letter of the law though, it would be illegal. As long as the transport didn’t pick up troops while in sz 115 (eg Finland), then it should be able to leave sz 115 and pick up troops somewhere else to do an amphibious assault anywhere it can reach. If it stayed in sz 115 while the combat was happening, then it couldn’t move on the non-combat movement phase to pick up troops to do a non-combat move because technically it was already in combat-even though it wasn’t in use during combat.
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Can the transport escape to 114 in combat and transport troops internally in noncombat?
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Each unit can only move once. It could not move on combat and be used on non-combat.
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Excuse me if I’ve misunderstood the situation, but if Germany and Russia are at war at the start of G2, then the other rule about loading the turn that you declare war doesn’t apply here?
Transport in 115, its a hostile SZ–what can you do
Combat: Leave, Load, Return
Combat: Leave, Load, Attack somewhere else (just can’t do that with only 2 moves or to Norway since its already yours)
Noncombat: Stick around and fight the battle with your ships–if you win, you can noncom out 2 spaces, load and drop at Norway during noncombat.If the enemy plays units into a hostile sea zone, you can
attack with all (if you win, TT can NCM out since it didn’t participate)
attack with none and leave with all (during combat!–this is the LEAVE THE SZ AND CONDUCT NO COMBAT BELOW so no NCM for the TT)
attack with some, and TT leave with the rest (but no NCM b/c of caveat)you win with some, and the TT stayed with them, then noncom as you would with TT,
if you lose your transport is stranded in 115 as it did not participate but it also did not leave during combat per the below instructions
or retreat, you’re stuck in 114 and your move is over. (Not sure how you can retreat, as the ships here “came” from 115, so there is no space from which the attacking units moved)RULES:
Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat, (if you win, this is the only way to get to NCM also, the TT didn’t fight or participate in combat)
Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct combat elsewhere, (no noncom, you combatted)
Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea zone to conduct combat (you can’t load units while in a hostile
sea zone but if you attack Novo, your turn is over also), orLeave the sea zone and conduct no combat. (BUT then no NCM based on this caveat)
So its a complex situation, that if you want the transport to be able to bridge, then you have to fight the ship in SZ 115, win, (but without using the TT for any reason) and then noncom out. If they deploy on you, then you can also leave but not noncom. PHEW! Probably got it at least partially wrong.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in combat, they can’t move or participate in the Noncombat Move phase of the turn.
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taam, that’s the same thing I was thinking after a while. I asked P@nther so maybe he will come along and clarify when he can.
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RULES:
Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat, (if you win, this is the only way to get to NCM also, the TT didn’t fight or participate in combat)I knew that this was incorrect so I went digging to find out where in the book it says so. On page 17 of the Pacific Rulebook, under the heading “Step 1. Sea Combat”, second paragraph it states;
If sea combat occurs, all attacking and defending sea and air units present must participate in the battle."and on page 32 under the heading of Unit Characteristics it says;
Even though a transport can attack or defend….etc.So what this means is that the attacker’s transports can’t just sit and watch the sea battle and then move afterwards to make a non-combat movement. It is part of the battle if it remains in the sea zone during combat. If it moves out during the combat movement phase then it could either do nothing or pick up units and make an amphibious assault. If the transport started it’s turn in a hostile sea zone, it couldn’t possibly make a non-combat move with or without cargo, nor could it act as a bridge on non-combat since it was involved in combat.
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GHG has it correct… you can’t keep the transport out of the battle if you choose to follow the “Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat.” rule (leaving the transport with the other attacking ships).
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I smell a new “Know the Rules” video coming on.
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It only comes up when they deploy on top of you so its an unusual situation. But if it comes up, the transports are limited–roger.
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So guys, Interesting responses regarding the transport - by the letter of the law you are correct.
But let me ask you another question:
Does everyone ANNOUNCE their amphibious assaults? I can’t think of a single time in 1000 games I have ever heard someone officially do this.
Check this out
Europe Rulebook Page 14:
“During the Conduct Combat phase, you can launch only
amphibious assaults that you announced during this
phase.”I mean, is moving the units into the territory you plan to attach a non-verbal “announcement”? Or is there a dirty trick to be played out at the next tournament here?
For example: Put your phone on voice record - watch a guy plan his perfect J3 India crush; let him move all his attacks; wait for the combat phase, he starts rolling dice and doesn’t “Announce”. He gets to india and it’s oh, excuse me sir, by the letter of the rulebook on Page 14 you didn’t announce the amphibious assault. Those amphibious units won’t be arriving in India - guess your air force is burnt.
Per the letter of the rulebook that’s 100% legit.
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You’re thinking of some kind of formal announcement where someone rings a bell first, clears their throat, and then declares for all to hear in an English accent that they intend to do an amphibious assault in Gibraltar.
I always tell my opponent after all of my moves are made what my intentions are with all of my attacks and so do most other people that I have ever played. The reason you’re supposed to announce that one in particular is that you could sneakily say " no, I was just moving my boats there with those 12 dudes on them, I had no intention of landing them" after your other attacks had failed and it was no longer a good idea to land them. Yes, you should tell your opponent you’re landing troops so they have a chance to scramble or not.
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The rule is reinforced again here:
Page #17
Amphibious Assaults
During this step you will resolve each amphibious assault
you announced during the Combat Move phase. If you
didn’t announce an amphibious assault, go to “General
Combat” on page 18.Interesting thing… Page 18-20 is just a continuation of regular combat. No announcement no Amphibious assault!
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You’re thinking of some kind of formal announcement where someone rings a bell first, clears their throat, and then declares for all to hear in an English accent that they intend to do an amphibious assault in Gibraltar.
If it’s in a strong Scottish dialect I might not understand it.
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You’re thinking of some kind of formal announcement where someone rings a bell first, clears their throat, and then declares for all to hear in an English accent that they intend to do an amphibious assault in Gibraltar.
I always tell my opponent after all of my moves are made what my intentions are with all of my attacks and so do most other people that I have ever played. The reason you’re supposed to announce that one in particular is that you could sneakily say " no, I was just moving my boats there with those 12 dudes on them, I had no intention of landing them" after your other attacks had failed and it was no longer a good idea to land them. Yes, you should tell your opponent you’re landing troops so they have a chance to scramble or not.
Well, you do have to unload the units in combat movement in spite of the combat in the SZ. Whether you do this by a verbal announcement or just moving the pieces onto the land makes no real difference.
RULES:
Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat, (if you win, this is the only way to get to NCM also, the TT didn’t fight or participate in combat)Bit in red is incorrect.
In addition to points raised above, to remove any doubt this is also explicitly duplicated in the rules.
@p13:Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones
At the beginning of the Combat Move phase, you might already have sea units (and air units on carriers) in spaces containing
enemy units that were there at the start of your turn. For example, an enemy might have built new surface warships in a sea
zone where you have sea units. When your turn comes around again, you are sharing that sea zone with enemy forces.
If you are sharing a sea zone with surface warships (not submarines and/or transports) belonging to a power with which you
are at war, this situation requires you to do one of the following:
• Remain in the sea zone and conduct combat,
• Leave the sea zone, load units if desired, and conduct combat elsewhere,
• Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea zone to conduct combat (you can’t load units while in a hostile
sea zone), or
• Leave the sea zone and conduct no combat.
Once these sea units have moved and/or participated in combat, they can’t move or participate in the Noncombat Move phase of the turn. -
When i play, i narrate all my moves. These guys are going here. And he’s coming in from here. They’re getting on the boat here and cruising over to here to pick up that empty spot (undefended coastal territory) im coming thru here and hitting here( blitz). Its they way i was taught when i first learned the game 25 yrs ago. Maybe he explained everything so i could learn. Maybe i kept explaining to teach. But now i explain everything. That should count as announcing.
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Narrating the game keeps everyone on the same page even if they aren’t looking at the board–its like a running news feed, the game’s audio.
Thanks for clarifying that the Transport has no way of NCM during this situation, which is, like most of the confusing nuances, the product of a rare set of factors coming together at once.
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When i play, i narrate all my moves. These guys are going here. And he’s coming in from here. They’re getting on the boat here and cruising over to here to pick up that empty spot (undefended coastal territory) im coming thru here and hitting here( blitz). Its they way i was taught when i first learned the game 25 yrs ago. Maybe he explained everything so i could learn. Maybe i kept explaining to teach. But now i explain everything. That should count as announcing.
Yes pretty much the norm for us in are games. The defender should be watching anyway at all times. The attacker in are games will land the ground on what there attacking. No need for AA announce. As far as a tournament then it should be brought up at beginning of games if thats the route you go.
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Thanks for clarifying that the Transport has no way of NCM during this situation, which is, like most of the confusing nuances, the product of a rare set of factors coming together at once.
But it is possible and not only on SZ115.
I smell a new “Know the Rules” video coming on.
Looking forward seeing it! :-D
But one question remains, which I was not sure about:
Is it possible to ignore a newly build sub if your fleet contains a destroyer? -
@ Fiera
Yes. On you turn, your vessels can choose to ignore subs &/or transports. Doesnt matter if you have a destroyer or not. Your subs cannot ignore enemy destroyers. -
We had a game round last weekend and I was playing as the allies.
The German declared war on Russia G1 moved their battleship, cruiser and transport to SZ115 and sunk the Russian cruiser and I thought, “Is that for real? My hypothetical question comes up in real life that fast!” So I purchased a destroyer and the funny thing was that he had not purchased ground units on Germany and moved all troops to Slovakia. That way he was not able to pick-up anything at SZ114. He delayed his attack on Leningrad for one round and sunk the destroyer. I think this delay (and of course the fun) was worth the 8 IPC .I smell a new “Know the Rules” video coming on.
@GHG: Your idea for an assault on Norway was way better than mine to move the boats to the med. (My opponent sunk SZ111 and kept me with SZ110)
On the other hand I kept Italy down that way, made a landing in Northern Italy UK3 (which they countered) and one in Southern Italy US4.
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