MOVIES 2017

Just Dunkirk, Aequitas.
Will need to call in a few favours to get a babysitter though.

Hi AetV. Thanks for starting this thread.

Certainly Dunkirk. And Guardians of the Galaxy was such a laugh that I look forward to the next one.

Also - the next Alien film and a Blade Runner sequel, even though the latter is not directed by Ridley Scott this time.

Anyone seen Hacksaw Ridge? How was it?

Hear anything about The Great Wall ?

@Private:

Anyone seen Hacksaw Ridge? How was it?

Hacksaw Ridge was awesome - see it!

Thanks DK. Think I will!

@SS:

Hear anything about The Great Wall ?

Looks terrible. IMO

Dunkirk is number one by far. Not even a contest.

Second is probably Alien: Covenant.

Wonder if Dunkirk will portray a “heroic” escape or go with Hitler deliberately allowing the British army to go because he wanted to make peace.

Official history or truth?

Buddy just saw Dunkirk. Said it was pretty good.

I thought the release was July!

Buddy said one of his friends has permission to go on a naval base or to that affect and said they show the service men the movie before it comes out.

I see. Thanks for explaining.

@Flashman:

Wonder if Dunkirk will portray a “heroic” escape or go with Hitler deliberately allowing the British army to go because he wanted to make peace.

Official history or truth?

There’s a lot of grey area around Dunkirk.  The “Hitler wanted to let them go as a sign of peace” is probably the most kinda-sorta-maybe-not-really-but-ya-sorta" things. I honestly think Hitler himself was probably somewhat conflicted on doing everything to stop them but letting them go as a peace gesture.

The fact is this however… he definitely did not let them peacefully escape without any attempt to stop them, that is most definitely clear.  The most definitive German intervention of Dunkirk can be pointed at the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe competition with Goering having a lot to do with the mess of Dunkirk.  While the encircling panzers were ordered to stop to rearm/refuel, it was Goering who drove it home to Hitler that he could stop them from leaving with the Luftwaffe, and certainly Goering tried… the fact that the panzers should have been given the order to close in immediately is clear if the Germans wanted a complete route at Dunkirk, the fact that Goerings promises to Hitler and glory-seeking for the Luftwaffe can also not be ignored.

As with almost anything in the Third Reich, pride/competition and indecision led to mistakes that cost them some golden opportunities on the battlefield.

Well said Wolf.

@Flashman:

Wonder if Dunkirk will portray a “heroic” escape or go with Hitler deliberately allowing the British army to go because he wanted to make peace.

Official history or truth?

I have your answer if you want it.

@Wolfshanze:

The fact is this however… he definitely did not let them peacefully escape without any attempt to stop them, that is most definitely clear.  The most definitive German intervention of Dunkirk can be pointed at the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe competition with Goering having a lot to do with the mess of Dunkirk.  While the encircling panzers were ordered to stop to rearm/refuel, it was Goering who drove it home to Hitler that he could stop them from leaving with the Luftwaffe, and certainly Goering tried… the fact that the panzers should have been given the order to close in immediately is clear if the Germans wanted a complete route at Dunkirk, the fact that Goerings promises to Hitler and glory-seeking for the Luftwaffe can also not be ignored.

As with almost anything in the Third Reich, pride/competition and indecision led to mistakes that cost them some golden opportunities on the battlefield.

Yes, and it fits with Goering having a bit of track record of having made inflated promises.  The citizens of Berlin referred to him as “Herr Meyer” behind his back because he’d once declared “If Berlin is ever bombed, you can call me Meyer”.  He later promised that he could resupply the encircled 6th Army at Stalingrad by air, but was able to deliver only a fraction of what it needed.

The order to stop 3 miles short of Dunkirk was definitely given by Hitler. Von Kleist was “astonished” and decided to ignore the order. He actually ordered the armour to advance but then received another directive from Hitler to withdraw and was kept there for 3 days.

Historian Basil Liddel-Hart concluded that the escape was largely down to Hitler’s personal order to Halt the armoured divisions. Hitler wanted the war in the west to end and he thought that destroying the British army would hinder the chances of making peace.

Hess had a big row with Hitler over this, believing that the best way to end the war was to smash the British while they had the chance.

There’s your answer.

@SS:

There’s your answer.

That’s not as clear cut as you make it out to be… yes, Hitler ordered the halt of the Panzers… and yes, there was talk of Hitler not wanting to totally crush the British, but at the very same time, he listened to Goering and TOTALLY Okay’d letting the Luftwaffe go nuts on the British at Dunkirk… having Goering throw everything but the kitchen sink at Dunkirk and Hitler doing nothing to stop it hardly goes in-line with the “he totally let them go” line of thinking.

As I said in my previous post, it’s really a very wishy-washy action and/or lack of action by Hitler on whether or not he was sincere about letting the English off the hook… if he was totally sold on the “let them go” line, he would have told Goering to stand-down… if he was totally on the “kill them all”, he would have sent the Panzers in.

As stated, the Third Reich and Hitler’s meddling often led to unclear policies and missed opportunities, the least of which was Hitler’s unstated policy of letting the different branches of the Third Reich constantly compete with one another, often at the detriment to national goals.

I don’t think anybody can say “yes he let them go” or “no, he totally tried to stop them”… the fact of the matter is, he kinda let them go while kinda trying to stop them.