My friend and I were discussing Argothair’s strategy. He says that if he could easily counter a giant W. Russia stack by attacking Karelia and Caucasus at the same time. Especially Caucasus, attacking with everything in range. Would a good counter-strategy be the Russian Ukraine opener? I’m talking about attacking Ukraine, but not taking it on the first turn.
All the Russian openings: For Begginers
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@Imperious-Leader I am the guy that builds a CV with Germany. So my BB is there to stay. :)
I think attacking S37 only makes sense when planing KJF, as the US fleet in this case will put pressure on Jap at least 1 turn early.
About Borneo. As I said, i try to explain when I strugle most from the other side. My problem with Borneo when it’s taken is because the other stuff that happens. That is 2nd transport destroyed. LC to Borneo prevents a BB bombard there and this coupled with only 1 transport attacking can result in nasty surprised - I know this as it happened to me.
One other thing is that if you move UK ships towards UK they will spend too much time out of combat and by the time they arrive they won’t bring anything new on the table, as Germany will focus on land anyway.
So how to best use them is to delay Japan expansion while you focus on KGF. By forcing Jap to retake Borneo AND killing the 2nd tranport that is 1 precious turn you win right there. That’s at least 3 more units you can build in India, not counting fighters you can bring there from UK.
So, speaking form Jap side, the worst UK opening for me is when this happens:
- transp in S61 killed with 1 CV and 1 fighter
- fighter lands in Yunnan + 1 inf from Burma gives Jap a tough choice
- Borneo won with 1 LC and transport
- New Guinea won with 1 LC and transport
- UK sub attacks Jap sub. I always dive, but some players don’t, so I have to put this on the table. And in any case, I focus on other important targets on J1, so that sub stays and will remain a nuisance for a couple of turns.
So yeah, IMO this is the worst start for Japan. The Jap fleet will sustain no losses, so KJF is not exactly the best follow up on this, but the Jap expansion will be stalled for 1 turn and India will become a tough nut to crack.
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Yeah I don’t think East Indies IC is a viable KJF deterrent in Gencon, I’ve tried it more than a few times, but just end up wishing I’d dropped hitpoints for the same amount of cash. OOB the India situation is different and Germany was in a stronger position out the opener, which means USA has a bit more flexibility to gun after Japan in Gencon. Marine Iguana was the dude who I first heard suggesting 5 subs on J1 as the only real way to deter KJF in A&AO, if Axis is fearful of all out Pacific Press from USA. At first this seemed like overkill to me, but having tried it a few times it definitely makes the IJN pretty flexible. The trade off is a 1 round delay on transport shucking heaving into sz61, but the upside is a more predictable KGF slog vs high stake Pacific naval contest right away. Last conversation I had on it, the consensus view was basically that conservative German play is much harder to break even in Gencon, that securing the IJN was probably the most important concern, and that of the two Axis players Japan was probably more vulnerable if they lose the sub spam race to USA by allowing America to get a build in before they drop.
Kind of like Green I usually feel that by the time the carrier arrives in the Atlantic its not doing a whole lot for Allies that the USA wouldn’t have already have handled by then. So I tend to either go guns blazing with it right out the gate, or do the hover round east Africa thing and wait to see if there is an opening to double back on the money islands, or at least threaten Japan enough at sea that they can’t sprawl too hard. A&AO rules kinda tweak things. I tend to take the sub to protect the Aussie evac transport (and wait to see if its better to swing Brazil or double back towards money islands) if KJF. Otherwise I camp sz37 with it, just to maybe cause Japan a headache.
I haven’t been playing much the past month though, could be something new floating around now. But that was what I saw in the pre season towards the end there before the last patch.
I think overall I am more familiar with KGF, so might be skewing that way when thinking on vulnerability, but not sure I’d try it much anymore. Better to focus sz61 and just pushing Yunnan center route I think.
Best
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@Black_Elk
I enjoyd reading this. on the topic of japan invading India I ask: hi l. I enjoyed your story. tell me when you play, how do you “count” transport moves from japan to Manchuria? for example if a transport boat wants to bring foot soldiers or tanks how many can it carry? I debated with another player. I felt two trips so one tank and two infantry but he wanted to bring more claiming the same sea zone is infinite trips what do you do? -
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@barnee that is when a transport moves two zea zones. please notice japan and Manchuria are in same sea zone perhaps transport can bring two tanks like two sea zones, or more?
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yea so that is called “bridging”. Once you load and then unload the trprt is done. So it doesn’t have to move, although obviously it can, but loading and unloading dictate the number of dudes it can transport in 1 turn.
I’m sure someone else will give a more detailed answer, but that’s basically how it works. : )
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@hirohito22
I see @Panther is on. We’ll ask him to explain it :) -
@barnee You are correct, of course. Page 31 of the rulebook:
“A transport can load and offload units without moving from the friendly sea zone it is in (this is known as “bridging”). Each
such transport is still limited to its cargo capacity. It can offload in only one territory, and once it offloads, it cannot move,
load, or offload again that turn.” -
@barnee said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
yea so that is called “bridging”. Once you load and then unload the trprt is done. So it doesn’t have to move, although obviously it can, but loading and unloading dictate the number of dudes it can transport in 1 turn.
I’m sure someone else will give a more detailed answer, but that’s basically how it works. : )"
thank you b. for clarifying that about unloading. I had imagined that if it could move two sea zones then I could make more than one trip each with capacity but that would be against the rules. of capacity. and as p. added once unloaded ends, so cant move to adjacent sea zones.
another mistake I made was to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade… I see that is also forbidden by the quote that p. brought. so thanks for involving him. -
@hirohito22 said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
another mistake I made was to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade… I see that is also forbidden by the quote that p. brought. so thanks for involving him.
or perhaps “collecting” is permitted? to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade?
but not to unload two infantry in two places one inf in philipines and second in the adjacent sea zone for example borneo. -
I can confirm collecting is permited.
@Black_Elk
Ever since I read your post about East Indies IC I built it in 99% of my games. However since the rank reseted and I am still silver (after a 5/0 placement it seems that now I drop faster in rank due to ‘idle’ than I can win games), the outcome is inconcludent so far. In fact is too good to be true haha.To explain, if ally players get full KGF and leave Pacific uncontested AND UK doesn’t kill 2nd transport, I can potentially win India in turn 3. Unless diced, ofc. Wich, again, in AAO it happens a lot.
However, with 2nd Jap transport destroyed I prefere building 3 transports in J1, I feel I can expand faster like this.
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@hirohito22 said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
@hirohito22 said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
another mistake I made was to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade… I see that is also forbidden by the quote that p. brought. so thanks for involving him.
or perhaps “collecting” is permitted? to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade?
but not to unload two infantry in two places one inf in philipines and second in the adjacent sea zone for example borneo.Rulebook, page 31 again:
“A transport can load cargo from one or two territories in or adjacent to friendly sea zones that it occupies before, during, and after it moves. A transport can pick up cargo, move one sea zone, pick up more cargo, move one more sea zone, and offload the cargo at the end of its movement. …”Download it from https://avalonhill.wizards.com/rules
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@Green-Vandago I am confused about the East Indies IC. It is on an island, so you still need transports to utilize it fully. Why not just use Japan and not waste the 15 ICs?
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Building all those transports especially if UK attacks your destroyer and transport may not be a good idea, Reason: UK and USA have too many naval assets in PTO and you need to buy additional hardware to stop the pileup. I would buy only 1-2 transports tops, 1 fighters, 1-2 subs/destroyer.
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@Dimitri said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
@Green-Vandago I am confused about the East Indies IC. It is on an island, so you still need transports to utilize it fully. Why not just use Japan and not waste the 15 ICs?
Because it opens up the possibility of an early turn 3 attack on India. It’s of course situational, but when the possibility opens up it can be deadly. Unless diced, of course.
Anyway, it works best if both initial transports are available. And it can be done regardless of what US is doing, but usually will try to build a fleet to counter you.
Edit:
Here’s how I play, if Japan has 2 starting transports.1st turn:
- I clear as many ally naval assets I can, especially Hawai fleet is a must
- transports move troops from Japan and from Phillipines to Burma
- I take Yunnan and Anwei and defend Kwantung
- I build 1 IC and 2 transports
2nd turn:
- 1 arty and 1 tank from Burma + 1 inf from Borneo and East Indies each will attack Western Australia
- all available land units move to Burma
- BBs, fighters and bomber move in strike range on India
- 2 inf and 2 tanks bought on East Indies IC
Doing this, in turn 3 I can attack India with:
- 13 land units from Burma
- 8 units brought by transports
- 3-5 fighters and a bomber
- 1-2 BBs
As you can see, that’s quite a lot of troops, and most of the time India will fall.
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Great article! I agree that Karelia is a country you should just as well forget about. Caucasus is actually an important piece in your defensive line, but unfortunately can be taken if you are playing with an open SZ 16(by a massive land/amphibious and fighter supported assault). Try to just hold a line by shuffling infantry up and down, this is confusing for Germany and is just fun. If you end up losing all but Russia, or all but Russia and the Caucasus, you can still be hindrance by sending small assaults at weak positions, blitzing in and out with tanks for extra IPC’s, or build a strategic bombing force. The way most games go Russia is a hindrance force by round 2 or 3. So, draw German resources away from more critical fronts, and give aid to your allies major attacks.
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@Green-Vandago Thanks, it is clearer now!
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I’m curious as to why the Buryatia stack R1 is considered such a bad idea. Sure, the Japanese can take this out but it comes with an opportunity cost as the air units involved are then not able to participate in the Pearl Attack or hit China J1. Japan then has to keep an eye on Manchuria, too. It’s work done, walk the stack out R2.
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Interestingly I think that’s like the default move that the computer opponent does if assigned to play Allies. Not that I’d suggest following the machine for much, but who knows might be something to it that most have neglected? I think its just the high cost for the Russians vs what Allies are likely to get out the deal long term. 5 inf for 15 ipcs is pretty pricey for a bait, and parking a Brit fighter to back it up takes that up to 25 likely destroyed. I don’t know could just be me, but if Russia stacks Bury without a Brit fighter I will always try to smoke it on J1. If they do bring the fighter then the profit for the Bury attack starts getting closer to Pearl level trade off (such that J might consider leaving 53 alone to pull it off). Japan can also run a hit on 53 with the sacrificial fighter coming from sz37 instead of Tokyo if they wanted, and still land the Bury fighters on deck in sz60 after.
4 inf 1 tank 2 fighters 1 bombardment vs 5 inf 1 fighter is still like 80% to the attacker with 2 units remaining on ave, 3 if attacker won.
Every now and again that might break unlucky for Japan with a dud or something, but most times they blast through 6 hitpoints like it was nothing, and then the north is open road for the rush to Evenki line. Obv the plan for that to have much pay off would be like full on KJF slam trying to break the Japanese in the first couple rounds. For a fast game high stakes might be fun, cause there’s only so much Japan can do in their opener. If I was Japan I’d prob just bring the bomber into it, and focus north initially instead of Pearl, cause it would really suck to get rolled on the mainland immediately. Or like you mentioned, also possible to ignore the Bury stack and just bolster manchuria on D, delay of game tactics for both sides hehe. But on balance I think its just tough for Allies to have Soviets leading the charge in the East, when they are already struggling so much just to maintain vs G onslaught, and then not having those Siberian dudes to back up the middle path across China or as a life line to bolster the center in the 4th round. This based more on the A&AO situation which is slightly different from the physical board, with no bids and such to help the set up beyond the Gencon tweaks. Then again its just kinda speculation, I haven’t seen enough games where players tried for the Bury stack to really know the ultimate trade off. That’s a strong telegraph for KJF, so as G I would just go for broke in the opener I think, and play for the fast game on the center.
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@Eqqman Think also about it this way. This game is very much balanced around the tension between Germany and USSR. If cared for, those 5 inf can potentially make the difference between Moscow falling or not. I know that whenever I have stacked Bury as Allies and seen it wiped on J1, USSR has this sudden naked feeling.
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