@theskeindhu For the Pacific, what I like to do it bait out elements of the IJN by sending loaded transports at Borneo/DEI/Philippines on suicide missions. The TTs are going to die in all likelihood, but if the opponent overextends you can punish them for it, and if they lack TTs they won’t get the islands back right away, which gives you some healthy income/slows Japan down for a few turns. Even if they have TTs, you can usually sink them with your Carrier FTRs + 1-2 SUBs. This forces them to buy a few more TTs/spend effort cleaning up your SUBs, which distracts them from India/Moscow. Every small distraction helps. 1-2 INF can swing a battle’s odds dramatically in the favor of one side over the other.
All the Russian openings: For Begginers
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Same boat as you, more or less. My path to victory as Axis is usually Leningrad/India/Moscow though. Whenever I go after Honolulu my opponent always seems to just start blowing 100% of the USA’s money on fleet to prevent it.
To answer your question, if the Allies can’t do a 100% KGF before Japan has the time to build up an 8 Transport (for a 4 transport land-bridge between Japan -> Burma), then something’s gone horribly wrong IMO. As an estimate, it would take at least 5-6 turns for Japan to build up a transport fleet that large while also spending IPCs on defending the Pacific from any US attempts at poking around with its starting fleet. 5-6 turns should be more than enough time, on paper, for the Allies to at least kill Germany’s navy + clear out Africa + have the Germans holed up in Germany/Italy/France. At that point, the India stack can retreat, since VCs are no longer an issue, and the Russians can spend all of their money trying to hold Caucasus/Persia while the US/UK try to finish off Germany and win on VCs.
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Hmm, I thought KGF means US moves everything to Atlantic. If it will split build Japan will eat its navy in Pacific. Unless UK wins in S37, but that means the 2nd japan transport will be alive and kicking and frankly I prefere this scenario to a lost transport.
In anycase, my J1 build is usually 3 transports, 1 tank and 1 inf. So getting to 8 transports is not hard, presuming US leaves me alone. And if US split builds, I still have 2 turns to build up vs India until I have to build ships too to compensate, and this means UK has to move everything he’s got here, so even less pressure on Germany.
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Consider a J1 of: 1 fighter, 2 transports, 2 Infantry. Why? You use one fighter as “suicide” against US Pac fleet, and take it off as combat loss, leaving the Cruiser in Hawaii ( possibly the sub too) which forces (if US goes against Japan) to commit all remaining naval in Hawaii.
The Kicker is you position your Jap fleet 2 spaces away with planes including the one you placed in Japan. This completes the annihilation of all US naval assets
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Hey and thanks for your suggestion.
I always prepare for a 2nd attack on S53, by moving 1 DD and the Indochina fighter to S50. And IMO an ally player that moves his BB there is a weak player because the remaining Japan fleet can be killed by just moving the DD and 1/2 fighters, so why risk losing that BB in J2? THis of course, unless Japan doesn’t lose any units in J1 and is forced to move in the CV, in which case it may be worth to move in the BB too even if it means losing it next turn.
This being sais, personally I think Japan starts with a lot of fighter power and it’s not necessary to built more right in J1, so I’d rather focus on ground units and transports so I can take India ASAP. But if things go bad and I lose the fleet in S37, I’d rather build 2 transports and 2 DDs rather than 1 fighter and 2 inf that won’t get picked up the same turn.
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@Green-Vandago I guess that just depends on who you fight against. I never 100% abandon the Pacific as USA specifically because of how dangerous Japan gets when they don’t have to spend any money on an actual combat fleet.
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Now this is a really good point.
As I have never played allies so far I am really curios about this issue. Leave Japan alone and focus entirely on KGF, or split build to mess Japan up? But I think one important thing here is what you do in UK1? Kill transport or gamble in S37?
The thing is if you didn’t kill Japan fleet in S37 then you will need 2 turns to build just to match up Japan fleet. And a 3rd turn to become a real threat. In these 3 turns Japan builds 5 transports + troops to fill them up. And I think only a really bad dice can stop Japan expansion in this scenario.
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@Green-Vandago I mean you can only do so much as Allies on this map with no-bid in the first place. Axis are overwhelmingly favored, even with the LHTR setup. Ignoring Japan’s strength, Germany has an absolutely massive edge over the USSR to the point where just the USSR needs a massive thread (this one) of people trying to brainstorm ways just to survive past turn 5. It’s telling that this nation-specific thread is the only one stickied whereas in the G40 board both the Axis and the Allies have their own strategy threads stickied.
Side-Note: I don’t like the SZ37 gambit as UK (in AAO) because you’re turning the entire game into a coin toss, but if you have like 6-8 bid to work with give UK an extra SUB/DD and it makes the attack more worthwhile. Playing this game in-person is a different animal than playing AAO.
EDIT: Elaborated on my point a bit.
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UK attacking the Jap fleet is really silly, its better to just kill the transport and Destroyer ( with cruiser and fighter) and kill Jap sub so its not used against Hawaii, move the rest away. Invading Borneo is a waste, Japan will kill 7 IPC transport and your men…all that for one turn 4 ipc and leaving 2 less men in India?
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Forgot to mention: i did try to make all these bad ideas work, and learned from my mistakes!
I usually target the German Battleship and move the carrier off India en route around cape horn
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@Imperious-Leader I am the guy that builds a CV with Germany. So my BB is there to stay. :)
I think attacking S37 only makes sense when planing KJF, as the US fleet in this case will put pressure on Jap at least 1 turn early.
About Borneo. As I said, i try to explain when I strugle most from the other side. My problem with Borneo when it’s taken is because the other stuff that happens. That is 2nd transport destroyed. LC to Borneo prevents a BB bombard there and this coupled with only 1 transport attacking can result in nasty surprised - I know this as it happened to me.
One other thing is that if you move UK ships towards UK they will spend too much time out of combat and by the time they arrive they won’t bring anything new on the table, as Germany will focus on land anyway.
So how to best use them is to delay Japan expansion while you focus on KGF. By forcing Jap to retake Borneo AND killing the 2nd tranport that is 1 precious turn you win right there. That’s at least 3 more units you can build in India, not counting fighters you can bring there from UK.
So, speaking form Jap side, the worst UK opening for me is when this happens:
- transp in S61 killed with 1 CV and 1 fighter
- fighter lands in Yunnan + 1 inf from Burma gives Jap a tough choice
- Borneo won with 1 LC and transport
- New Guinea won with 1 LC and transport
- UK sub attacks Jap sub. I always dive, but some players don’t, so I have to put this on the table. And in any case, I focus on other important targets on J1, so that sub stays and will remain a nuisance for a couple of turns.
So yeah, IMO this is the worst start for Japan. The Jap fleet will sustain no losses, so KJF is not exactly the best follow up on this, but the Jap expansion will be stalled for 1 turn and India will become a tough nut to crack.
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Yeah I don’t think East Indies IC is a viable KJF deterrent in Gencon, I’ve tried it more than a few times, but just end up wishing I’d dropped hitpoints for the same amount of cash. OOB the India situation is different and Germany was in a stronger position out the opener, which means USA has a bit more flexibility to gun after Japan in Gencon. Marine Iguana was the dude who I first heard suggesting 5 subs on J1 as the only real way to deter KJF in A&AO, if Axis is fearful of all out Pacific Press from USA. At first this seemed like overkill to me, but having tried it a few times it definitely makes the IJN pretty flexible. The trade off is a 1 round delay on transport shucking heaving into sz61, but the upside is a more predictable KGF slog vs high stake Pacific naval contest right away. Last conversation I had on it, the consensus view was basically that conservative German play is much harder to break even in Gencon, that securing the IJN was probably the most important concern, and that of the two Axis players Japan was probably more vulnerable if they lose the sub spam race to USA by allowing America to get a build in before they drop.
Kind of like Green I usually feel that by the time the carrier arrives in the Atlantic its not doing a whole lot for Allies that the USA wouldn’t have already have handled by then. So I tend to either go guns blazing with it right out the gate, or do the hover round east Africa thing and wait to see if there is an opening to double back on the money islands, or at least threaten Japan enough at sea that they can’t sprawl too hard. A&AO rules kinda tweak things. I tend to take the sub to protect the Aussie evac transport (and wait to see if its better to swing Brazil or double back towards money islands) if KJF. Otherwise I camp sz37 with it, just to maybe cause Japan a headache.
I haven’t been playing much the past month though, could be something new floating around now. But that was what I saw in the pre season towards the end there before the last patch.
I think overall I am more familiar with KGF, so might be skewing that way when thinking on vulnerability, but not sure I’d try it much anymore. Better to focus sz61 and just pushing Yunnan center route I think.
Best
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@Black_Elk
I enjoyd reading this. on the topic of japan invading India I ask: hi l. I enjoyed your story. tell me when you play, how do you “count” transport moves from japan to Manchuria? for example if a transport boat wants to bring foot soldiers or tanks how many can it carry? I debated with another player. I felt two trips so one tank and two infantry but he wanted to bring more claiming the same sea zone is infinite trips what do you do? -
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@barnee that is when a transport moves two zea zones. please notice japan and Manchuria are in same sea zone perhaps transport can bring two tanks like two sea zones, or more?
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yea so that is called “bridging”. Once you load and then unload the trprt is done. So it doesn’t have to move, although obviously it can, but loading and unloading dictate the number of dudes it can transport in 1 turn.
I’m sure someone else will give a more detailed answer, but that’s basically how it works. : )
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@hirohito22
I see @Panther is on. We’ll ask him to explain it :) -
@barnee You are correct, of course. Page 31 of the rulebook:
“A transport can load and offload units without moving from the friendly sea zone it is in (this is known as “bridging”). Each
such transport is still limited to its cargo capacity. It can offload in only one territory, and once it offloads, it cannot move,
load, or offload again that turn.” -
@barnee said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
yea so that is called “bridging”. Once you load and then unload the trprt is done. So it doesn’t have to move, although obviously it can, but loading and unloading dictate the number of dudes it can transport in 1 turn.
I’m sure someone else will give a more detailed answer, but that’s basically how it works. : )"
thank you b. for clarifying that about unloading. I had imagined that if it could move two sea zones then I could make more than one trip each with capacity but that would be against the rules. of capacity. and as p. added once unloaded ends, so cant move to adjacent sea zones.
another mistake I made was to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade… I see that is also forbidden by the quote that p. brought. so thanks for involving him. -
@hirohito22 said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
another mistake I made was to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade… I see that is also forbidden by the quote that p. brought. so thanks for involving him.
or perhaps “collecting” is permitted? to “collect” one inf from each island for example one inf from philipines move first step to borneo, load second inf and move second step to Australia to invade?
but not to unload two infantry in two places one inf in philipines and second in the adjacent sea zone for example borneo. -
I can confirm collecting is permited.
@Black_Elk
Ever since I read your post about East Indies IC I built it in 99% of my games. However since the rank reseted and I am still silver (after a 5/0 placement it seems that now I drop faster in rank due to ‘idle’ than I can win games), the outcome is inconcludent so far. In fact is too good to be true haha.To explain, if ally players get full KGF and leave Pacific uncontested AND UK doesn’t kill 2nd transport, I can potentially win India in turn 3. Unless diced, ofc. Wich, again, in AAO it happens a lot.
However, with 2nd Jap transport destroyed I prefere building 3 transports in J1, I feel I can expand faster like this.
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