@Krieghund Can Anzac AAA gun be used to take ownership of Dutch territories in pacific?
In the rules and subseqent faqs/addendums it says that conversion of dutch territories by UK/ANAC requires a land unit.
In a different part of rules it specifies that converting a friendly neutral can’t be done with an AAA but since Dutch is a special case, it seems to be a loophole as it qualifies as a land unit and moving any land unit into the dutch territories allows for transfer of ownership.
@ksmckay I’d never considered using an anti-aircraft unit to take possession of DEI territories, but I don’t see why the rules wouldn’t allow it: AAA is a land unit and you have to move in during non-combat movement to take possession. It seems to me to be a legal move.
@ksmckay No you can’t take controll of it with AA-Guns only.
Here is a Link: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/20494/mongolia-and-neutrals-rules-summarized-here
This refers to your question if:
An AA-Gun is able to take controll of a Teritorry.
So the answer to this is No!.
But you could potencially land Ftrs there without taking controll of it and may as well drop off AA-Gun(s).
It is also not a loopwhole in the game.
More like a special handling b/c of their ( UK/Anzak) relationship during WWII.
You cannot take control of a Dutch territory with only AAA units.
@Krieghund said in UK/Anzac AAA convert dutch territories?:
You cannot take control of a Dutch territory with only AAA units.
thanks!
@aequitas-et-veritas that thread addresses friendly neutrals - dutch territories arent friendly neutrals. But doesnt matter as it has been answered now. The rules as printed didnt address this one particular scenario and nothing else on the site addressed it specifically either.
Intent of the rule seemed clear but it is never spelled out for this particular scenario. Now it is.
Last I heard the Dutch were Pro Allies Neutral so they are friendly
@SS-GEN said in UK/Anzac AAA convert dutch territories?:
Last I heard the Dutch were Pro Allies Neutral so they are friendly
That is incorrect - they are not neutral and are not treated as neutrals. For example, US can’t take initial ownership, and unlike neutrals, you can land planes in them on the turn they were converted.
But Krieghund provides official answers so the question raised has been answered.
If you have to convert it to get the money from a dutch Island then its a pro allies neutral until converted.
But of course this is the G40 game.
@SS-GEN said in UK/Anzac AAA convert dutch territories?:
If you have to convert it to get the money from a dutch Island then its a pro allies neutral until converted.
But of course this is the G40 game.
Again, that is wrong - the dutch territories on pacific map are not friendly neutrals. But no reason to muddle this thread with unrelated conversation.
you can see this thread for more information on dutch territory rules
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/20494/mongolia-and-neutrals-rules-summarized-here
They are until Paris falls then. We differ on this rule. More or less the wording of rule. All good. Happy gaming !
The rulebook has it clear:
Rulebook, Pacific 1940.2 page 9:
Dutch territories
The Dutch territories begin the game uncontrolled by
any power. However, they are considered friendly to the
Allied powers. Holland has been captured by Germany, so
Dutch territories are treated in the same way as any Allied
territories whose capital is held by an enemy power (see
“Liberating a Territory,” page 20), with the exception of the
guardianship of United Kingdom and ANZAC (see “United
Kingdom and ANZAC”, above).
@Panther I still haven’t see any rule which states that UK or ANZAC may not use a AAA unit to assume guardianship of Dutch territories. It’s a land unit, it moves in during noncombat movement…If there’s a specific rule addressing this, I can’t find it.
@The-Pripet-Martian said in UK/Anzac AAA convert dutch territories?:
@Panther I still haven’t see any rule which states that UK or ANZAC may not use a AAA unit to assume guardianship of Dutch territories. It’s a land unit, it moves in during noncombat movement…If there’s a specific rule addressing this, I can’t find it.
Krieghund’s response counts as an official rule. Until his response there was no official rule - at least not on this site or in the rules.
@ksmckay On what, exactly, is @Krieghund’s statement based? The vast majority of situations that arise can be easily resolved, if not by direct reference to a rule, then through inference based on interpretation of a rule. My interpretation is as follows:
The definition of guardianship is “the position of protecting or defending something.” AAA is a purely defensive unit. Krieghund’s ruling seems to me to be a contradiction, rather than a continuation, of the existing rule.
Rulebook page 26
Infantry, artillery, mechanized infantry, tanks, and AAA (antiaircraft artillery) can attack and defend only in territories. Only
infantry, artillery, mechanized infantry, and tanks can capture hostile territories or convert friendly neutrals. All can be carried
by transports.
Just makes it consistent with the already existing rules. AAA cant be used to take ownership of a territory. Existing rule considered everything but the issue of guardianship of dutch territories. This ruling just adds to that rule and makes it include everything instead of everything but the dutch territories.
The rules are crystal clear for hostile territories and friendly neutrals. The Dutch territories are in no way friendly neutrals. Pacific 1940.2, p.9 makes it clear that guardianship is altogether different from “annexing” or “converting” friendly neutrals. I refer again to the definition of guardianship and the fact that AAA is a defensive unit. I disagree with Krieghund’s interpretation.
Air units are defensive as well, but they don’t count either. As ksmckay said, this is consistent with the related rules.
Of all the games and different games I’ve played over the years an AAA gun could never take control of a territory. But Pripet does have a valid point. It is a land unit too. If an Artillery can take control why not a AAA gun ?
If you use a transport to carry an artillery to a Dutch Island why not a AAA. Besides it’s defending on next turn so the piece should count.
It’s like if the ground unit can’t attack and defend it can’t control a territory.
Until then krieghund rule stands unless Larry changes it. To bad.
Interesting! Sounds like the rules/FAQ needs an update to cover this point.
@SS-GEN said in UK/Anzac AAA convert dutch territories?:
Of all the games and different games I’ve played over the years an AAA gun could never take control of a territory. But Pripet does have a valid point. It is a land unit too. If an Artillery can take control why not a AAA gun ?
If you use a transport to carry an artillery to a Dutch Island why not a AAA. Besides it’s defending on next turn so the piece should count.
It’s like if the ground unit can’t attack and defend it can’t control a territory.
Until then krieghund rule stands unless Larry changes it. To bad.
If you want a rationale as to why AAA aren’t “good enough” to take control of a territory, consider that they have no combat value, which means that if an enemy invades the territory, they will be automatically destroyed without putting up a fight. This kind of defensive support doesn’t inspire much confidence in your allies.
