@taamvan OK, I’ve discussed this with Larry. I have apparently erred on the side of “realism”. While my answer made sense from that point of view, it over-complicates the rules in play. To keep the rule simple, moving units using an ally’s transport is in effect the same as moving them with your own, with the exceptions that a) they must be offloaded on a later turn than when they were loaded, and b) the transport moves on its owner’s turn, if at all. I will amend my answers above accordingly.

It always interests me from among the many, many things that are abstracted in the broad-brush approach of these games what certain players home in on as “unrealistic”. I guess it depends on either what each individual’s pet interest is or what game mechanism they dislike the most. In any case, the bonus movement from bases is simply a very broad abstraction of the logistical advantage they provide, and, like it or dislike it, they do add an element of strategy to the game.

@imperious-leader Thanks, IL. I’m already on board!

@the_good_captain You may withdraw some or all of them. If a group withdraws together, they must all withdraw to the same sea zone.

@contango said in Global 2nd edition Q+A ( AAG40.2):

Question: During the same UK non-combat phase, can the UK land unit starting in United Kingdom load onto the US transport whilst the UK land unit starting on the US transport offloads into Normandy Bordeaux?

The rules say that allied units must remain on the transport for a round before offloading, even if the transport doesn’t have to move, strongly implying that the transport “moves within the sea zone” during the ally’s turn between the moving power’s turns. Applying that principle disallows a move such as this.
Yes, but loading must occur before offloading, as offloading disallows any further activity on/by the transport during the turn.

Bonus Question 1: If the answer above is “yes”, would it still be “yes” if the UK land unit starting on the US transport offloads into United Kingdom?

While the above answer is “no”, it would be “yes” in this case. Since the two units loaded from and offloaded to the same territory, it would be OK. Of course, the only reason I can think of to do that is to trade an infantry for another unit type (or vice versa). Needless to say, the unit not on the transport must load before the unit already on the transport offloads, as offloading disallows any further activity on/by the transport during the turn.
Yes.

Bonus Question 2: If the answer to the first question is “yes”, would it still be yes if neither of the UK land units were infantry? (is the spirit of the rules that loading always happens first and hence would not be allowable because two non-infantry units would be aboard the transport together, or could the offload be seen as happening first?)

This would not be allowed at all, as loading must occur before offloading.

I have uploaded the FAQs for all of the OOP games (Classic, Europe, Pacific, Revised, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, Guadalcanal, 1942 1st Edition) in their appropriate forums. Could someone please “sticky” them?

@Ichabod1862 said in Strict Neutrals - Planes Flying Through:

@Krieghund

I get you have been declared an official ruling somehow.

That would be because I was a developer and editor for the game.

I’ve been playing Triplea live a lot lately…gotten used to clicking “DOW on the strict neutrals.” That’s besides the situation really.

Triple A doesn’t get everything right. Some shortcuts are taken for whatever reason. Page 10 of the Rulebook is clear on this matter.

Your ruling to me I think eisegetes into the text a fuller meaning not intended.

Germany conducts combat moves into Turkey while simultaneously combat moving planes through Turkey, but due to the ruling this means they somehow really have to simultaneously respect their air space? Makes no sense which makes me think you exegeted into the rule book an unintended end state.

page. 11 Europe book. “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it.”

The point of the rule on page 11 is that you cannot simply fly planes through strict neutrals in general.

For your interpretation, the rule should say all air units no matter what until AFTER attacking it. Because I think they should be able to fly over it even if just 1 infantry attacks the same neutral territory. The point of the rule is you can’t fly through like ground cannot go into the pripet marshes.

Germany is attacking it with air units. Why the interpretation that other air units cannot simultaneously fly through? The rules intent is to prevent flying through when never and not attacking them in general.

It’s not a ruling, it’s the rule. The rule is straightforward as written. “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it.” It says air units cannot fly over an unfriendly neutral, then provides an exception for attacking it. An air unit that is flying through a neutral territory is not attacking it, so it is not allowed. It may only fly into one to attack it. That is the intent of the rule. Any other interpretation is simply reading something into it that isn’t there.

Per page 11 of the Rulebook, once a neutral territory is invaded, it is no longer neutral, so the restriction no longer applies. However, since all combat movement is simultaneous, the restriction is not lifted until after the combat movement phase in which it was invaded.

I hope this clears things up.

Here is the comprehensive list of A&A sculpts, rescued from Larry’s site and updated for newer games:

Soviet AAA: 85mm M1939
Soviet Artillery: 152mm Howitzer in AAE40.2; 105mm Howitzer (US) elsewhere
Soviet Mechanized Infantry: ZIS 42 Halftrack
Soviet Tank: IS-2 in AA41; T-34 elsewhere
Soviet Fighter: P-40 (US) in AA41; Yak 3 elsewhere (erroneously listed as Mig 3 in AAE40)
Soviet Tactical Bomber: IL-2 Sturmovik
Soviet Strategic Bomber: Lancaster (UK) in AA41; Petlayakov PE-8 elsewhere
Soviet Battleship: Hood class (UK) in AA41; Gangut class in AA42, AAE40 & AAZ; Royal Oak class (UK) elsewhere
Soviet Cruiser: Kirov class in AA42 & AAE40; County class (UK) in AA50
Soviet Destroyer: Sumner class (US) in AA41; Gnevnyi class in AA42, AAE40 & AAZ; Johnston class (US) elsewhere
Soviet Carrier: Project Kostromitinov in AA41; Illustrious class (UK) elsewhere
Soviet Submarine: U class (UK) in AA41; S Class in AA42.2; Srednyaya class in AAE40.2; Ray class (US) elsewhere
Soviet Transport: Fort class (UK) in AA41; Baltic Timber Ship in AAE40.2; Liberty Ship (US) elsewhere

German AAA: 8.8cm Flak 36 in AA42.2; 8.8cm Flak 41 in AAE40.2
German Artillery: 10.5cm LeFH 18 in AA42.2, AAE40.2 & NA; 88mm elsewhere
German Anti-Tank Gun: 8.8cm Flak 41
German Truck: Opel 3 Ton in BoB; CMP (UK) in NA
German Scout Car: sdkfz 231
German Mechanized Infantry: sdkfz 251 Halftrack
German Tank: Tiger I in AA41; Panzer IV in NA; Panther elsewhere
German Fighter: Fw-190 in AA41; BF-109 in AA42, AA50, AAE40, AAZ, BoB & NA; Stuka elsewhere
German Tactical Bomber: Ju-87 Stuka
German Strategic Bomber: He-111 in AA41; Ju-88 elsewhere
German Battleship: Kongo class (Japanese) in AA41; Bismarck class elsewhere
German Cruiser: Admiral Hipper class
German Destroyer: Akitzuki class (Japanese) in AA41; Friedrich Eckholt class elsewhere
German Carrier: Akagi class (Japanese) in AA41; Graf Zeppelin class elsewhere
German Submarine: Kaichu type (Japanese) in AA41; Type VII elsewhere
German Transport: Yamazuki Maru class (Japanese) in AA41; Hilfskruezer elsewhere

UK AAA: 3.7in QFAA
UK Artillery: Ordnance QF 25 Pounder in AA42.2, AA40.2 & NA; 105mm Howitzer (US) elsewhere
UK Anti-Tank Gun: 6 Pounder
UK Truck: CMP
UK Scout Car: LRDG Jeep
UK Mechanized Infantry: M5 Halftrack (US) in AA40.1; Priest in AA40.2
UK Tank: IS-2 (Soviet) in AA41; Matilda II in AA50, AA42, AA40, AAZ & NA; Sherman (US) elsewhere
UK Fighter: P-40 (US) in AA41; Spitfire elsewhere
UK Tactical Bomber: Mosquito
UK Strategic Bomber: Lancaster in AA41; Halifax elsewhere
UK Battleship: Hood class in AA41; Royal Oak class elsewhere
UK Cruiser: County class, Kent subclass
UK Destroyer: Sumner class (US) in AA41; Saumarez Class in AA42.2 & AA40.2; Johnston class (US) elsewhere
UK Carrier: Project Kostromitinov (Soviet) in AA41; Illustrious class elsewhere
UK Submarine: U class in AA41; Truculent class in AA42.2 & AA40.2; Ray class (US) elsewhere
UK Transport: Fort class in AA41; Liberty Ship (US) elsewhere

ANZAC AAA: 40mm L/70
ANZAC Artillery: 105mm Howitzer (US) in AAP40.1; 5.5in BL in AAP40.2
ANZAC Mechanized Infantry: M5 Halftrack (US) in AAP40.1; Ram-Kangaroo in AAP40.2
ANZAC Tank: Matilda II (UK) in AAP40.1; AC 1 Sentinel in AAP40.2
ANZAC Fighter: Spitfire (UK) in AAP40.1; CA-12 in AAP40.2
ANZAC Tactical Bomber: Mosquito (UK) in AAP40.1; TB.Mk.1 in AAP40.2
ANZAC Strategic Bomber: Halifax (UK) in AAP40.1; PV-1 in AAP40.2
ANZAC Battleship: Royal Oak class (UK) in AAP40.1; Warspite class in AAP40.2
ANZAC Cruiser: County class, Kent subclass
ANZAC Destroyer: Johnston class (US) in AAP40.1; Tribal class in AAP40.2
ANZAC Carrier: Illustrious class (UK) in AAP40.1; Majestic class in AAP40.2
ANZAC Submarine: Ray class (US) in AAP40.1; S class in AAP40.2
ANZAC Transport: Liberty Ship (US) in AAP40.1; Monowai class in AAP40.2

Italian AAA: Cannone da 90/53
Italian Artillery: 70mm Howitzer (Japanese) in AA50; 88mm (German) in AAE40.1; Cannone da 75/32 in AAE40.2 & NA
Italian Truck: CMP (UK)
Italian Scout Car: sdkfz 231 (German)
Italian Mechanized Infantry: sdkfz 251 Halftrack (German) in AAE40.1; SPA Dovunque 35 in AAE40.2
Italian Tank: M14/41 in AA50; Panther (German) in AAE40.1; M15/42 in AAE40.2 & NA
Italian Fighter: C.202 in AAE40.2 & NA; BF-109 (German) elsewhere
Italian Tactical Bomber: JU-87 Stuka (German) in AAE40.1; SM.79 in AAE40.2 & NA
Italian Strategic Bomber: 24J “Betty” (Japanese) in AA50; JU-88 (German) in AAE40.1; P.108 in AAE40.2
Italian Battleship: Littorio class in AAE40.2; Bismarck class (German) elsewhere
Italian Cruiser: Zara class in AAE40.2; Admiral Hipper class (German) elsewhere
Italian Destroyer: Soldati class in AAE40.2 & NA; Friedrich Eckholt class (German) elsewhere
Italian Carrier: Aquila class in AAE40.2; Graf Zeppelin class (German) elsewhere
Italian Submarine: Marconi class in AAE40.2 & NA; Type VII (German) elsewhere
Italian Transport: Iridio Mantovani class in AAE40.2; Hilfskruezer (German) elsewhere

US AAA: 90mm M1
US Artillery: 105mm Howitzer
US Truck: GMC 2-1/2 Ton in BoB; CMP (UK) in NA
US Scout Car: LRDG Jeep (UK)
US Mechanized Infantry: M5 Halftrack
US Tank: IS-2 (Soviet) in AA41; Sherman elsewhere
US Fighter: P-40 in AA41; F-6 Hellcat in AA50, Guadalcanal & Pacific; P-38 Lightning elsewhere
US Tactical Bomber: SBD Dauntless
US Stategic Bomber: Lancaster (UK) in AA41; B-17 Flying Fortress elsewhere
US Battleship: Hood class (UK) in AA41; Iowa class elsewhere
US Cruiser: Portland class
US Destroyer: Sumner class in AA41; Johnston class elsewhere
US Carrier: Project Kostromitinov (Soviet) in AA41; Wasp class elsewhere
US Submarine: U class (UK) in AA41; Ray class elsewhere
US Transport: Fort class (UK) in AA41; Liberty Ship elsewhere

Japanese AAA: 75mm Type 88
Japanese Artillery: Model 92
Japanese Mechanized Infantry: SdKfz 251 (German) in AAP40.1; Type 1 in AAP40.2
Japanese Tank: Tiger I (German) in AA41; Type 95 Kyugo elsewhere
Japanese Fighter: Fw-190 (German) in AA41; A6M2 “Zero” elsewhere
Japanese Tactical Bomber: D3A1 “Val”
Japanese Strategic Bomber: He-111 (German) in AA41; 24J “Betty” elsewhere
Japanese Battleship: Kongo class in AA41 & Guadalcanal.R; Yamato class elsewhere
Japanese Cruiser: Takao class
Japanese Destroyer: Akitzuki class in AA41; Fubuki class elsewhere
Japanese Carrier: Akagi class in AA41 & Guadalcanal.R; Shinano class elsewhere
Japanese Submarine: Kaichu type in AA41 & Guadalcanal.R; I class elsewhere
Japanese Transport: Yamazuki Maru class in AA41 & Guadalcanal.R; Hakusan Maru class elsewhere

French AAA: 85mm M1939 (Soviet)
French Artillery: 105mm Howitzer (US) in AAE40.1; 152mm Howitzer (Soviet) in AAE40.2
French Truck: CMP (UK)
French Mechanized Infantry: ZIS 42 Halftrack (Soviet)
French Tank: T-34 (Soviet) in AAE40; SOMUA S-35 in NA
French Fighter: Yak 3 (Soviet, erroneously listed as MiG 3)
French Tactical Bomber: IL-2 Sturmovik (Soviet)
French Strategic Bomber: Petlayakov PE-8 (Soviet)
French Battleship: Gangut class (Soviet)
French Cruiser: Kirov class (Soviet)
French Destroyer: Gnevnyi class (Soviet)
French Carrier: Illustrious class (UK)
French Submarine: Ray class (US) in AAE40.1; Srednyaya class (Soviet) in AAE40.2
French Transport: Liberty Ship (US) in AAE40.1; Baltic Timber Ship (Soviet) in AAE40.2

@chaikov Yes, you’re interpreting the rules correctly.

However, WWII submarines didn’t “block” convoys. They attacked them, causing significant losses, but not stopping them altogether. Submarines were given the ability to pass through enemy units (countered by destroyers) in order to give them better survivability so they could live to attack on their own turn. This works both ways so that players can’t flood the board with cheap blockers and slow down game play.

I hope this helps.

@The-Lone-Wolf Western Canada should have a Canadian emblem. It’s in the FAQ, also available at Panther’s link above.

@reloader-1 Hmmm, it looks like you’re right. It is listed as MiG in the Rulebook, and that seems to be an error. I have modified the list accordingly.

Updated for North Africa and Renegade’s Guadalcanal reprint.

@The_Good_Captain Yes.

@The_Good_Captain Yes, it can move into a zone with Allied land units, just not through one.

There are no rules changes, but the rulebook has been updated with all of the material from the FAQ.

@morvill said in Submarine & Fighter attack, Fighter DD defense - Retreat Rules:

To me, it seems like because the 2 defending fighters have a valid target, that being the 1 attacking fighter, this condition is not met. And it does not specify “All units of a particular type”, so we can’t say the destroyer was “all units” in any sense. I don’t think I’ll see any disagreement on that. Thus, another round of combat will ensue unless the attacker chooses to retreat. The submarines cannot submerge at any other point than step 2 of the General Combat Sequence, thus for the subs to remain in the sea zone, another round of combat must persist, otherwise they must retreat “with” (the fighters remain the sea zone as part of their retreat) the fighter. Yet, if the attacker chooses to press, the subs do not have any valid targets for the next round of combat. Again, they could choose to submerge, but you could also surprise strike at “no units”, which to my knowledge is neither allowed nor disallowed by the rules, at least in this context.

Correct. It doesn’t matter whether or not all units on both sides have a valid target, only that at least one on each side does. If the attacker decides to press, all units will remain in the sea zone, even those that don’t have a valid target (the subs). If the attacker decides to retreat, all attacking units must retreat. As you say, the subs can submerge in the next combat round, but the only reason for them to do so would be so that they can remain in the sea zone if the attacker decides to retreat at the end of that round, as they are effectively out of the fight anyway.

Not sure if this is relevant, but per the rules:

Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to a power on the other side with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make
a sea zone hostile.) pg. 8

The friendly/hostile state of the sea zone has no bearing on combat. That is relevant only to movement.

@Suppressmeajumma

1. Yes.

2. It can on the Pacific map, but not on the Europe map (unless also at war with Germany or Italy).

3. As it cannot declare war until the Collect Income phase, it is still restricted.

4. Its industrial complexes are upgraded immediately when it enters a state of war, so they can be used on its first turn after another power declares war on it.

@PrivateerPuffin Supply tokens are not units, but they can be loaded during the Reinforce, Repair, and Deploy step. Your example is legal.

@simon33 Note that while air units on the side of the formerly neutral territory may now land in it, they cannot take control of it. Land units are required for that.

@Ichabod1862 said in Strict Neutrals - Planes Flying Through:

@Krieghund

I get you have been declared an official ruling somehow.

That would be because I was a developer and editor for the game.

I’ve been playing Triplea live a lot lately…gotten used to clicking “DOW on the strict neutrals.” That’s besides the situation really.

Triple A doesn’t get everything right. Some shortcuts are taken for whatever reason. Page 10 of the Rulebook is clear on this matter.

Your ruling to me I think eisegetes into the text a fuller meaning not intended.

Germany conducts combat moves into Turkey while simultaneously combat moving planes through Turkey, but due to the ruling this means they somehow really have to simultaneously respect their air space? Makes no sense which makes me think you exegeted into the rule book an unintended end state.

page. 11 Europe book. “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it.”

The point of the rule on page 11 is that you cannot simply fly planes through strict neutrals in general.

For your interpretation, the rule should say all air units no matter what until AFTER attacking it. Because I think they should be able to fly over it even if just 1 infantry attacks the same neutral territory. The point of the rule is you can’t fly through like ground cannot go into the pripet marshes.

Germany is attacking it with air units. Why the interpretation that other air units cannot simultaneously fly through? The rules intent is to prevent flying through when never and not attacking them in general.

It’s not a ruling, it’s the rule. The rule is straightforward as written. “Air units can’t fly over an unfriendly neutral unless they are attacking it.” It says air units cannot fly over an unfriendly neutral, then provides an exception for attacking it. An air unit that is flying through a neutral territory is not attacking it, so it is not allowed. It may only fly into one to attack it. That is the intent of the rule. Any other interpretation is simply reading something into it that isn’t there.

Per page 11 of the Rulebook, once a neutral territory is invaded, it is no longer neutral, so the restriction no longer applies. However, since all combat movement is simultaneous, the restriction is not lifted until after the combat movement phase in which it was invaded.

I hope this clears things up.