[House Rules] Should allies receive a bid?

[simon33]

@ReturntoNES Sounds like you’re really looking for a setup change.

[ReturntoNES]

@simon33 well sure I am. But that isn’t the topic of this thread…

[taamvan]

@ReturntoNES

That’s what I proposed; removing the choice so that there is a ‘set bid’ (1 Rus Armor and 1 Rus Fighter out of range of the opener), and its a setup change as well.

I agree with you, that a bid wouldn’t always be necessary, but different players show up each week. Often, we assign players or roll for teams; as I keep pointing to the club out this process is the opposite of open bidding, and once the teams are established by rolling or preference you have to simply designate a bid, which we agree is about 10-20 IPC.

At least in my live games, the need for a high bid is much lower than the ABH reported bids in the league. One on one vs Dave (who I consider better than myself), i’d want at least the “Taamvan Mod” amounts listed here (reduce (4x)5 bonuses to 3, add rus tank rus fighter)

[oysteilo]

I didnt understand all of this, but is there an available option to play the “taamvan mode” on triple a. In case how do I find it?

[barnee]

@oysteilo

yea go to map downloads, experimental. “Global 40 House Rules” is what you want.

Then hit “Map Options” before game start and hit “Option taamvan”. Latest version is 2.63. Idk if that will conflict if you play against someone with an earlier version.

The changes since didn’t have anything to do with the “taamvan” option, so I’d think you’d be okay, but…

[Mursilis]

So I have played two games with the “taamvan mode” and I think that it does quite good job at balancing out the game. It slightly slows down Germany while giving the Soviet Union something it never had before. OPTIONS!
That extra tank and fighter can be in Manchuria by turn 3 which means that not only does this effect Germany but also Japan. Hitting Manchuria/Korea with 18 infantry a tank and fighter means that Japan has to spend more money on transports or turn around some land units or simple keep a larger force than usual in Manchuria.

I think it is a small change that makes a big difference and I encourage everyone to give it a try.

[Kreuzfeld]

There is something to be said for fixed bids, or bids that is added to a nations starting money.

one problem with bids you can place where you want is that there are critical units you get to place. as an example, going from allied bid of 5 to 6 is much more impactful than 1 ipc. It allows UK to place that sub in the med. If a bid of 5 meant getting 1 AA in UK, and a bid of 6 meant getting 1 inf in UK and 1 inf in Moscow, the difference would not be as significant.

[taamvan]

@Mursilis

Thanks Mursilis, it only took me 191 games and 2 mod attempts to come up with that simple solution. We are getting into more “late games” where things aren’t decided until after the fall of moscow. If Germany survives the fall of moscow with most or all of its planes, and 5 or so tanks, with the OOB bonuses on top of that, it will almost always win. Argo has convinced me that Moscow will fall in the majority of games. The Ger/Italy money and starting forces simply cannot be stopped. The questions then are

1. did UK West build 3 factories, early? Did they waste money on anything but factories and plugging troops into the ME?
2. Does Germany have so much money and income after the fall of moscow such that with 4 eastern factories and what survived, it can handily a) take london because the defenders left b) take egypt by overwhelming the whole game build of UK west with the just the survivors and the late game build of Germany?

In the OOB game, Germany just needs to be patient, and it will eventually win. This is because they have like 80+ and a bunch of free bonuses and factories, whereas UK at most has 50 and usually more like 40 to fuel 3-4 factories. Russia cannot take Iraq or Persia–it will never have the $$ to build that many units and once its taken them, UK cannot do so. Japan can get shut completely down and this dynamic doesnt change.

[taamvan]

This is also why taking cyprus or malta is so powerful—denying the UK that bonus all game is another 50 dollars in 10 turns

[Mursilis]

@taamvan
I am wondering if you do Gargantua’s start as Soviet Union which is 6 tanks and building tanks and a few arty with infantry. Tank spamming with the SU is a must for countering the Germans. I was also wondering if you considered making Leningrad worth 5 again since this would make a northern push a bit more desirable since a problem with the game for the germans is that there is a TON of money south and not much north, plus you are further away from moscow. What are your thoughts?

[BJones]

What does that mean? Should they receive a bid?

[barnee]

@BJones

With experienced players of equal skill, the Axis will almost always win unless they get diced hard. There’s a few ways to do it, but usually, the “bid” gives the Allies x amount of cash that they can spend on units and place them before game start.

Once again, usually, you can only place one unit in a TTy/SZ and there has to be units of that player already in those areas.

You can look at some “league” games for examples of this.

link text

A bid probably isn’t necessary for inexperienced/new players.

[taamvan]

Both are fine ideas. Germany will often stack E Poland without the tanks. The total numbers of Russian troops on Moscow is going to be lower whenever you G1, they buy premium units, or Russia tries counterattacks. All of these weaken the final siege, but its typically a losing battle anyway.

You make a good point about Leningrad. Germany really only has 1 money direction to go, in any event (east). Still, the money $$ amounts for both Germany and Japan seem a bit abusive when they exceed what the USA can rational do (75-80). The goal balance wise is to pit a raging america that may have lost its first wave against a germany who has lost the better part of that ground army, but also likely has a big airforce, a big payday in hand, India, Moscow, etc. That late game is dynamic and pretty fun. 53 German tanks, 14 bombers, 12 other planes vs about 40 junk UK units isnt…its a blowout on VCs

[barnee]

@Mursilis
went ahead and added the Attack 4 Cruiser to triplea. A3 +1A with BB D3 C12

Probably a little different than what you’re trying but :) Let me know what you decide on and I’ll try and set it up on triplea.

Face to Face is arguably the funnest way to play but testing stuff works good on a computer.

Anyway let me know if you want the taamvan mod adjusted for Lenningrad =5 bucks. Can make the other NOs stay at 3 and make that one different.

One can obviously add units however they want. Just can’t change the NOs : )

Too bad it didn’t work out for ya. Sounded promising. What would you do forJapan ?

[General 6 Stars]

Ah finally somebody testing a suggestion.

[M36]

Well here’s my two cents. I don’t play online or competitively, I just play for fun with friends so we have never once used a bid. It’s far more fun coming up with creative strategies to counter the sheer power Japan starts with.

[simon33]

@M36 said in [House Rules] Should allies receive a bid?:

Well here’s my two cents. I don’t play online or competitively, I just play for fun with friends so we have never once used a bid. It’s far more fun coming up with creative strategies to counter the sheer power Japan starts with.

That’s all well and good but once you start playing people with much more optimal axis strategies you really do need a bid.

Alternatively, your group’s allied play is more optimal than online. This is highly unlikely, albeit possible.

[M36]

@simon33 I don’t get me wrong, the Axis win about 2/3 of the time so it’s clear they have an advantage. We’ve just always seen that as part of the challenge.

[Kreuzfeld]

@M36 once you get to higher levels of play, that 2/3rds will become 99/100 without bid

[M36]

@Kreuzfeld we also typically play for a world domination ending, which favors the Allies. Victory city conditions are far easier for the Axis to achieve.