[House Rules] Should allies receive a bid?

[Smack]

I’ve played a couple of games now and axis seem to have a big advantage. Is there’s suggested bid?
Thx

Smack

[simon33]

Yes. If the axis play properly, the allies need some big adjustments to stand a chance. Unless there’s some secret no one has found.

Bids are up to 40IPC. 20-25 isn’t enough to equalise the chances based on past league games. Balanced Mod reduces the bids if you’re interested: https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/27451/g40-balance-mod-3-0-rules-and-download/387 If you’re playing IRL, I suggest removing Iwo Jima, Guerilla fighters, USSR bonus for Japan DOW on it, marines for starters. Less is more when you have to remember these new rules. I’d keep the USSR lend lease changes and SBR rules though.

[PainState]

" If the axis play properly," Well that statement is very broad with a few implications. ( I will not list them for brevity)

Could you not also say that if the Allies play properly they are almost guaranteed a win?

So the Axis start with the advantage? Yes

Do the Allies need a bid to win? No

That is just my thoughts based on a lot of games played.

[simon33]

The game is balanced then? Come into the league. If you can win with allies and no bid against decent axis players you should be league champion.

[majikforce]

@simon33 If we are talking OOB then the game is not balanced and favors the Axis. And bids above 30 are the only way I’ll play as the Allies. Now all this being said the indiviual players skill is a big variable. I’m sure you can find opponents you could beat with no Allied bid. But assuming equal skill level of the combatants the Axis will almost always win without a bid. League play will prove this theory for you. Play some of the higher tiered players with no allied bid and you will get your bell rung! As for the BM version I think its a much more balanced game. While some claim small bids either for the Axis or the Allies is needed I don’t agree. I would tweak some of the NO’s and rules and call it good.

[Mursilis]

So OOB game is a 30 bid for allies whereas BM is almost perfectly balanced? Let me ask a quick off topic question. Does including vichy France help balance the game or does it really not matter. And is the Marine necessary to the game balance or is that just a bonus unit?

[simon33]

IMO, Vichy favours axis slightly, marines are a close call.

Sbr changes favour the allies but the real changes are in the no’s.

[majikforce]

@simon33 said in Should allies receive a bid?:

IMO, Vichy favours axis slightly, marines are a close call.

Sbr changes favour the allies but the real changes are in the no’s.

I agree Vichy favors the axis slightly but it is easily prevented but at a price. Marines are lots of fun. I wouldn’t say necessary but definitely add spice to the pacific theater. One huge change that is overlooked a lot is the capital plunder only being allowed to occur once. A big balance for the Allies.

[DCWhat]

I am going to repeat the topic title question because I too am curious about this and I seen a couple different responses here. In a standard OOB Global 40 game, with the axis player and the allies player both at equal skill level, what bid should the Allies receive in order to balance the game and give the Allies an equal chance of winning the game? I’ve been looking through some league games played on triple a and I am seeing +16 to +25ish on global 40.2. The bid of 30-40 seems a bit excessive to me…

That being said, I noticed a lot of online games for global being played exclusively with the BM variant. I’m thinking perhaps the unbalance of a standard G40.2 set up has made the OOB version a thing of the past. Perhaps that is why I see Global War by HBG and the 3G40 variant becoming more and more popular for the board game players/dice rollers.

I should perhaps ask if triplea offers the global war game or even perhaps grasshopper’s victory token variant?

[simon33]

I think that the bid required varies with skill level. When you first play the game the Axis are often too timid about declaring war, particularly with Japan. This really plays into the Allies’ economic advantage. Even once you understand this point, losing a few Japanese transports really slows you down as the axis. Also, gaining the knowledge of how weak Moscow really is and how much preferred it is to go after that, without being distracted, than going after London, changes European Axis’ moves.

Then there’s blockers and can opening.

Back to the question, so if you’re both complete novices playing straight up might see allied victory but when both are highly skilled bids might need to be 40+.

[Kreuzfeld]

With every single A&A game, the bid have increased with skil-level. The better you are. the more ability you have to use your advantages.

[taamvan]

The name “Balanced Mod” begs a conclusion. A better name would be “Different Mod” as it contains a lot of really fun ideas, but not all of them are particularly balanced (esp. SBR and China Guerilla Warfare). Some of the stuff (esp. Marines and NOs) are completely different than other, previous incarnations of that idea, and I don’t really understand why the Marines get to ride on the capital ships as it isn’t realistic IMO and would prevent you from bombarding AND landing, or combat AND noncombat. The Vichy Rule is sorta fun too, but its more for flavor than balance, I think.

The game will never be exactly balanced. What most people who have argued this for several years would say is much like what Simon33 just said; you have to first learn how to exploit the critical paths in the game, avoid non-critical or inefficient distractions, and you’ll magnify the Axis starting advantage. Against noobs, even a 100 bid wont prevent moscow’s fall because they’ll put the bid down in the wrong place. Against most players, russian isn’t the recipient of the bid, because players correctly understand it would be more powerful to put it with UK v Italy and leverage that advantage over 10 turns, than waste it on a blowout you lose on turn 6. Argothair probably makes the best point that the game designers probably intended for Moscow to fall in almost every KRF game, and that its actually a healthy part of the fun of the late game (with really only 4 surviving powers, not 9) once you get there.

Having said that, Dave and I have begun playing with 1 extra Russian fighter and 1 extra armor in Urals, and 4 of the $5 Axis bonuses reduced to $3. It has a DRAMATIC impact on the balance of the game rest of the otherwise unchanged game, even though I reckon the value to be only about $36-$44 bid equivalent.

[oysteilo]

@taamvan said in Should allies receive a bid?:

Having said that, Dave and I have begun playing with 1 extra Russian fighter and 1 extra armor in Urals, and 4 of the $5 Axis bonuses reduced to $3. It has a DRAMATIC impact on the balance of the game rest of the otherwise unchanged game, even though I reckon the value to be only about $36-$44 bid equivalent.

Which ones? Would be interesting to try

[taamvan]

@oysteilo

Leningrad, Caucasus (to Germany), Stalingrad and Moscow. All become $3. Tried it with the other $5s…we ended up leaving India, Spice and Iron alone because they need to be $5 in order to make those areas really desirable to fight over.

Both of the changes 1) don’t alter the opener 2) dont change the early game much or the decision making process 3) but have a big effect over time, preserving russian choice and moving the bid to the “correct” team, not the “most efficient” bid target (ie UK). They do reduce the wildly overpowered income that Germany gets even when Moscow plays well.

Dave easily shut germany down last game, though my open luck was horrible.

and Curtfungus is back! Sweet! Rage and rip the board in half!

[Gargantua]

This post is deleted!

[djensen]

Okay, okay. Time to give out the yellow cards. Please don’t hijack a good thread with trolling, it’s a bad look for the site. Plus, Curtmungus you’re supposed to be on an indefinite vacation from the forums.

[simon33]

@djensen Curtmungus was an asset to the league. Is there a way he can play again or is it that he’s a sock puppet and can play under his normal name anytime he wants?

[Panther]

@simon33
Dave is referring to https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/30356/say-goodbye-alter-ego-accounts/

[djensen]

@simon33 That’s an interesting point. I actually use a sock puppet account for my games but I have the unique problem that this account has admin privileges. It’s also quite obvious that it’s my sock puppet account @djensen47

[Panther]

@djensen Of course it is: You actually do follow our forum rules:

9. Multiple Accounts
   Undisclosed multiple accounts are not allowed.
   Disclosed multiple accounts should be limited to 2.
   -2 accounts are allowed mostly for the purpose of playing TripleA games.
   -Your second account must indicate you primary account in the username or in the profile. For instance my second account for TripleA is “djensen47”

:wink: