@crockett36
This seems interesting. I’ll try it out.
[Global 1940] 10 sides dice
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So I am about to buy G40 for all my friends to play but I always wanted to use 10 side dice instead of the standard 6 side because it makes math easier to use so the point of this post is that I want to properly adjust units attack and defense according, what do you think this should be. For example, infantry attack at 1 so with a ten sides, should it be 2 or 3 attack?
Moderator’s edit: Added tag [Global 1940] to title.
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Hail Caesar!!
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The VANN FORMULAS can price units, but the sad thing about that they are up the air if I want to reveal them, of not to the A&A community for right now.
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@Dauvio:
The VANN FORMULAS can price units, but the sad thing about that they are up the air if I want to reveal them, of not to the A&A community for right now.
I was just going to mention Caesar that you better get the Vann Formula…but I’m not certain the A&A community is worthy of that knowledge.
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@Dauvio:
The VANN FORMULAS can price units, but the sad thing about that they are up the air if I want to reveal them, of not to the A&A community for right now.
VANN DAM
If your not going to post Vann Dam Formulas here then stop posting and saying it will change the AA community forever.
You sent me another PM stating the 2 inf is better than a tank. Just stop.
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You get some interesting wiggle room on this one. Depending upon the unit and whether you want it to be purchased more, or less. Inf attack at 2 probably regular purchase frequency, but Inf attack at 3 is better stats than before. You may find that there are many more Infantry on the board!
This would be advantageous for increasing the purchase of some often ignored units, by bumping up the cruiser to 7 not 6. You will probably need to play test and figure it out.
Additionally you could incorporate new units such as this example: Tank Destroyer between mech and tank in a more natural way. -
@Caesar:
So I am about to buy G40 for all my friends to play but I always wanted to use 10 side dice instead of the standard 6 side because it makes math easier to use so the point of this post is that I want to properly adjust units attack and defense according, what do you think this should be. For example, infantry attack at 1 so with a ten sides, should it be 2 or 3 attack?
Assuming 1/6 = 16.7%, 2/6 = 33.3%, etc.
One issue I see is about combined arms.Inf A1 (16.7%) becomes A2 on D10 rounding up and A3 with combined arms bonus. (33.3% rounded down)
But Tac A3 (50%) becomes A5 on D10 but combined arms bonus should rise to A7 if rounding up to be closer to 4/6 (66.7%).So combined arms bonus will not be the same according to different units if you want to stay close to OOB odds.
Is it your intent to keep similar odds?For instance, you might want to get AAA closer to historical rate which seems to be 10%, hence keeping rolling 1 on D10.
@Rank:
You get some interesting wiggle room on this one. Depending upon the unit and whether you want it to be purchased more, or less. Inf attack at 2 probably regular purchase frequency, but Inf attack at 3 is better stats than before. You may find that there are many more Infantry on the board!
This would be advantageous for increasing the purchase of some often ignored units, by bumping up the cruiser to 7 not 6. You will probably need to play test and figure it out.
About Cruiser A3 D3 C12, on D10 it translates into A5 D5 C12.
Rising it to A6 D6 C12 may be the way to balance this unit.
Usually, there should not be any unit which get such 6/10 because 3/6 is 50% = 5 and 4/6 is 66.7% =7
That way Cruiser combat values will be unique.And making Destroyer A3 D3 C8 will also weakened slightly DD compared to OOB 33.3% Att and def combat values.
Converting Artillery to A3 D3 C4 and MI to A2-3 D3 C4 (imply 33.3% rounded down to 3) and Tank to A5 D5 C6 may slightly get Tank to a right balance against Inf and Art.
C5 Tank were OP while C6 Tank are a bit too costly. 5.5 IPCs would have been the right cost. -
I am purely interesting in a D10 only for calculating odds as working in 10’s is easier than 6’s.
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As a starting scale on D10:
OOB
Inf A2-3 D3 A17-33% D33%
MI A2-3 D3 Same
Art A3 D3 A33% D33%
AAA A0 D2 A0 D17%
Tk A5 D5 A50% D50%Fg A5 D7 A50% D67%
TcB A5-7 D5 A50-67% D50%
StB A7 D2 A67% D17%SS A3 D2 A33% D17%
DD A3 D3 A33% D33%
CA A6 D6 (or A5 D5) A50% D50%
CV A0 D3 A0 D33%
BB A7 D7 A67% D67%Is it what you will use?
I would probably ponder about AAA, StB and Sub defense values.
Maybe the weak odds are more realistic @1 out of 10 instead of rising them to 20%.I might go this way:
AAA A0 D1 vs up to 3 planes but lower cost to 3 IPCs each.
OOB you get near 50% when 3 planes targeted for 5 IPCs: 10% per IPC.
Here you keep same ratio: 30% for 3 IPCs: 10% per IPC.StB A7 D1
Bombers were made for offense and already very good at it.Sub A3 D2
Because Subs on defense are usually trapped by planes and 1 DD.
The game mechanic make Subs too much vulnerable. Defense @2 is a small compensation.I would prefer TcB A6-7 D5, that way combined arms simply gives +1A to Inf, MI and TcB.
Fg A5 D7 vs TcB A6 D5 seems a nice way to make both planes different. -
@Caesar:
I am purely interesting in a D10 only for calculating odds as working in 10’s is easier than 6’s.
Calculating odds for large battle is much easier on an AACalc or TripleA calc.
What other kind of way to apply odds do you have in mind? -
Paper and pen, the group I play with forbid any online calculation so I thought about this D10 idea.
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IDK many methods to approximate hits on a single combat round beside adding att vs def points and dividing by 6.
With base 10, numbers will be higher, but easier to see when you get a hit because the first digit will tell : x4, 14 = 1 hit, 34 = 3 hits, etc.
Do you know better method to forcast outcomes? -
@Baron:
As a starting scale on D10:
OOB
Inf A2-3 D3 A17-33% D33%
MI A2-3 D3 Same
Art A3 D3 A33% D33%
AAA A0 D2 A0 D17%
Tk A5 D5 A50% D50%Fg A5 D7 A50% D67%
TcB A5-7 D5 A50-67% D50%
StB A7 D2 A67% D17%SS A3 D2 A33% D17%
DD A3 D3 A33% D33%
CA A6 D6 (or A5 D5) A50% D50%
CV A0 D3 A0 D33%
BB A7 D7 A67% D67%Is it what you will use?
I would probably ponder about AAA, StB and Sub defense values.
Maybe the weak odds are more realistic @1 out of 10 instead of rising them to 20%.I might go this way:
AAA A0 D1 vs up to 3 planes but lower cost to 3 IPCs each.
OOB you get near 50% when 3 planes targeted for 5 IPCs: 10% per IPC.
Here you keep same ratio: 30% for 3 IPCs: 10% per IPC.StB A7 D1
Bombers were made for offense and already very good at it.Sub A3 D2
Because Subs on defense are usually trapped by planes and 1 DD.
The game mechanic make Subs too much vulnerable. Defense @2 is a small compensation.I would prefer TcB A6-7 D5, that way combined arms simply gives +1A to Inf, MI and TcB.
Fg A5 D7 vs TcB A6 D5 seems a nice way to make both planes different.Another aspect which might be better scaled is in SBR combat values:
Fighter A1 D1 (17%) may become A2 D2 on D10 base. (20%)
TcB A1 D- (17%) may becomes A2 D- (20%)
StB A1 D- (17%) may keep A1 D- (10%)IC’s AAA (17%) may also keep @1 (10%) on each StB.
StBs and AAA will be lowered while Fg and TcB get a slight increase but becomes far more efficient in air-to-air combat compared to StB.
This IMO is a better compromise than BalanceMode and OOB dogfight values.
You may even keep a better historical feel to give interceptors an advantage like:
Fg A2 D3.
This 3: 2 ratio is weaker than 2:1 (D6 base) of G40 first edition SBR.Using D10 provides opportunity to correct various distortion created by D6 limited options for combat values.
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@Caesar:
So I am about to buy G40 for all my friends to play but I always wanted to use 10 side dice instead of the standard 6 side because it makes math easier to use so the point of this post is that I want to properly adjust units attack and defense according, what do you think this should be. For example, infantry attack at 1 so with a ten sides, should it be 2 or 3 attack?
Just wondering, why a D10? Might be easier to use a D12.
Not sure if it works with a D10 as how will you handle 1@6 should be 1,6@10I use D12 because you get that flexibility of that 1 or 2 extra number compared to a D10.
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@SS:
@Caesar:
So I am about to buy G40 for all my friends to play but I always wanted to use 10 side dice instead of the standard 6 side because it makes math easier to use so the point of this post is that I want to properly adjust units attack and defense according, what do you think this should be. For example, infantry attack at 1 so with a ten sides, should it be 2 or 3 attack?
Just wondering, why a D10? Might be easier to use a D12.
Not sure if it works with a D10 as how will you handle 1@6 should be 1,6@10I use D12 because you get that flexibility of that 1 or 2 extra number compared to a D10.
With D12, the logic would be to simply double your numbers and your odds don’t change.
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@Caesar:
With D12, the logic would be to simply double your numbers and your odds don’t change.
I wonder. If you look at the way conventional 6-sided dice work, a single die produces precisely equal odds for each of the six roll possibilities – but as soon as you move to two (or more) dice, the probability distribution becomes a bell curve rather than a straight line. A change from 1d6 to 1d12 may similarly not be quite straightforward in terms of the math involved.
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Test it out and see if anything changes.
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@Caesar:
With D12, the logic would be to simply double your numbers and your odds don’t change.
Actually, I have used 12-sided die, but have not simply doubled all of the numbers, depending on what version I am playing. I use the D12 to get greater differentiation between various units, and in some cases, nationalities. The Italian infantry division in World War 2 had only two regiments, instead of just about everyone else having 3 regiments. As a result, should have different values than other infantry units, but with a D6 that is not possible. With a D12, you can give the Italian infantry a different attack and defense factor than the other infantry units. Similarly, the best Japanese tank was about on par with the US M3/M5 light tank series, and nowhere comparable to either the M3 Grant/Lee Medium or the M4 Sherman, and they showed little ability to use tanks in mass, preferring to deploy them in company-sized units with the infantry. Rather than having the Japanese armor attack at 6 and defend at 4, I have them attacking at 3 and defending at 4. The defense factor is based on the Japanese willingness to literally fight to the last man, and their ability to camouflage tanks in defensive positions.
You can alter ship attack and defense values in the same way. Maybe you give a destroyer a 6 for attacking submarines, but a 4 for attacking surface ships, and depending on the navy, anywhere from 1 to 6 for engaging aircraft. Japanese destroyers were seriously deficient in light anti-aircraft weapons, while the US Fletcher-class ships would have been rated by the Royal Navy as anti-aircraft cruisers. From this, you might want to give a US destroyer a defense strength of 6 against aircraft. A D12 also makes it easier to put cruisers in the game, inbetween the destroyer and battleship.
There is a lot more you can do with a D12 dice than simply double the standard numbers.
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yes d12 is superior because it is more similar to the existing system, which can then be used as a baseline.
FMG version has different attack powers for damaged vs undamaged capital ships, for example. And attack and defense. 88 guns could have an outrageous price but then fire at air and be artillery at the same time…
Like you suggested, “The War Game” spinoff has different costs for the different nations, adding the complexity of having different attacks/defense for each nation isn’t a stretch.
Only problem is then that since there are quite a few units that already need a tweak (tactical bomber) you’d need to cost the units appropriately, (so japan and ital. tanks are like 4, not 6, bc they’re junk. Italian mech could be 1;1;2;2 tankettes lol) then you’re adding a big leap of complexity.
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@Caesar:
With D12, the logic would be to simply double your numbers and your odds don’t change.
Actually, I have used 12-sided die, but have not simply doubled all of the numbers, depending on what version I am playing. I use the D12 to get greater differentiation between various units, and in some cases, nationalities. The Italian infantry division in World War 2 had only two regiments, instead of just about everyone else having 3 regiments. As a result, should have different values than other infantry units, but with a D6 that is not possible. With a D12, you can give the Italian infantry a different attack and defense factor than the other infantry units. Similarly, the best Japanese tank was about on par with the US M3/M5 light tank series, and nowhere comparable to either the M3 Grant/Lee Medium or the M4 Sherman, and they showed little ability to use tanks in mass, preferring to deploy them in company-sized units with the infantry. Rather than having the Japanese armor attack at 6 and defend at 4, I have them attacking at 3 and defending at 4. The defense factor is based on the Japanese willingness to literally fight to the last man, and their ability to camouflage tanks in defensive positions.
You can alter ship attack and defense values in the same way. Maybe you give a destroyer a 6 for attacking submarines, but a 4 for attacking surface ships, and depending on the navy, anywhere from 1 to 6 for engaging aircraft. Japanese destroyers were seriously deficient in light anti-aircraft weapons, while the US Fletcher-class ships would have been rated by the Royal Navy as anti-aircraft cruisers. From this, you might want to give a US destroyer a defense strength of 6 against aircraft. A D12 also makes it easier to put cruisers in the game, inbetween the destroyer and battleship.
There is a lot more you can do with a D12 dice than simply double the standard numbers.
Yeah but since when has Axis and Allies ever take into account equipment and which unit it is attacking to determine what damage is done?
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