Call your shot on dice rolling?

Imperious Leader, SS, and myself have been discussing “Call Shots”, or as I (still) think of them: “pick the hit unit on 1”, in my thread about adding Heavy Artillery to Classic A&A. I pasted in the full transcript below. I thought I would break this out to its own conversation.

So far, what is being discussed as a Call Shot is when a player rolls a 1 when attacking with Battleships, Tactical Bombers, or Heavy Artillery, the player who rolls the one picks the unit taken as a loss.

I am very skeptical of Call Shots. I will admit that I haven’t played with such rules so I don’t have any personal experience. And while I wouldn’t call it game-breaking to give certain units special powers when I roll a 1 for your attack, it just doesn’t sit well in my mind.

So I thought I would make this a separate topic so that others could chime in. I’m willing to be convinced and admit that I do need to try it out. But I also doubt that I’m the only one for whom the thought of my opponent picking my losses leaves a bad taste in my mouth…

-Midnight_Reaper

Full transcript:
@SS:

@Midnight_Reaper:

@SS:

@Midnight_Reaper:

@Imperious:

1 on Attack roll you pick the target with no return fire

Try it one of two ways:

what we call a “call shot” pick land unit as loss alternatively if you roll a one, defender chooses loss and that unit cant fire back

you will like one of these options

I would have to try them out before I could give a full opinion of them. My question to you is: why the emphasis on ‘pick the hit unit on 1’ rules? Is this a new addition to the meta of house rules here? Submarines have pretty much also fought this way, but I’ve previously seen proposed house rules for Tac Bombers to ‘pick their hit on 1’. Is this becoming a thing?

Should I start a new thread to ask about the popularity and usefulness of ‘pick your hit on 1’ critical strike rules?

-Midnight_Reaper

I have in my WW2 40 game Tac (Dive) bombers  D12  A7 D4 M4 C10 roll a 2 or less on A and D can pick target with no return shot for ground and naval. The 2 or less roll hit is for more of a accurate shot on a piece. So I use the Tac as a 2 different scenario.

Also in one of my 39 games there are Dive Bombers and Naval Figs that can pick the target on a 4 (Dive) or 1 (Fig) but the defender still gets a return shot while the attacker gets to pick the piece.
Pretty much these pieces are in just the 39 games and anybody that has housed ruled there game (G40 OOB) but just a few if any. From what I’ve seen posted on site anyway.

It must have been your Tac Bomber rules that I read. It just seems like the idea of “He shoots, he scores, he crits, he picks the casualty!” has become something I’ve noticed of late. As I’ve said before, I’m not a big fan of that idea in the abstract, but I will admit to really needing to try it out for real before I can truly say that I don’t like it at all.

-Midnight_Reaper

The main reason for Tac Bombers to have this call shot is for both ground and naval attacks plus it gets the Tac Bomber more involved in the game. There like the Cruiser. Nobody really buys them. Thats also why my Cruiser is (D12)  A7 D7 M2 C9. (but you need to lower your destroyers 1 value in A and D). So Destroyers would be A3 D3.  Its a good boost for Anzac, FEC and Italy. As I stated before you need to play test everything.

You could try with the defender at least gets a return shot if you have your doubts.

@SS:

@Imperious:

My question to you is: why the emphasis on ‘pick the hit unit on 1’ rules?

This again is what we call : Call shot

Having something that breaks up the idea that the loser of the unit can choose whatever he wants as a combat loss is a good thing. The artillery units generally carpet bomb whole areas of the battlefield, and Heavy Artillery doing the most damage. Second having such a unit makes it very valuable in the game, by playing you will find out. Thirdly its really fun and i would further suggest the Battleship have this capability. Reason: because the BB has the guns of the greatest range and can shoot targets before they can fire back as they need to be closer to even have a chance.

Oh great IL. Now I got to add this to my Battleships in games !  :-D

Death Heads plays by me and he wanted the no return shot from Battleships and Cruisers  for 39 game and we played 2 games that way but the rest of guys in group didn’t want it. Go figure. I can at least see the Battleship Bombardment hit gets a no return shot. its like pulling teeth with some people but what it is is what it is.  :wink:

@Narvik:

You are in luck, Eagle games already makes this kind of dice

Great!

@Carolina:

I went with blank d6 - 5 colors, and applied 1 dot, 2 dots, …. 5 dots on each color set.  Now, is there a discussion on which color get how many dots?  Leaning towards, yellow 1, black 2, red 3, blue 4, green 5.  Also, are the 2 dots opposite or adjoining sides?  (So many decisions!!!)

Sure, Carolina. That’s why I prefer my original 1-4 polyhedral dice option: no decisions!  :-D

If I’m going to move forward with my ideas, I want to do so in a user friendly manner. Thanks to all who respond.

The main advantage for overall game balance in AA50 1942 (Allies v Axis) under these rules (with the non-com opening), is that the US gets to keep their Pacific carrier deck. This is fairly major in encouraging the dual theater war, and is one of the things we like most about the set up. The bonus structure also encourages a more effective Russian tank purchase under most set ups, which leads to a dramatic Kursk style scenerio on the eastern front under most openings. Japan alternatively has a much greater incentive to build air and naval, because the Allied position on the sea is stronger, requiring a more substantial counter.

Also, and this is just an aside, but having played quite a few alternative starts now, it has become much clearer to me why the gameplay on this mapboard is so centered around Moscow and Europe. It is a consequence of the basic map territory connections. 7 territories border Moscow which mean 7 ways in, a split 7 defense of the capital. Berlin is 5 territories and a sea zone, 6 ways in, 6 split defense. UK is 5 all from the sea. Compared to Eastern USA and Japan which can both be defended from a single sea zone, it is fairly clear to me why the board would favor KGF, regardless of the unit set up, or the starting income conditions. And why Moscow is the clear choice over London, for a conservative Axis warplan.

Still, that said, I do find that the bonus scheme outlined above helps to moderate the built-into-the-board drivers on Moscow and Berlin (and to a lesser extent London), and pushes it instead into a somewhat more “world” wide conflict. Plus the idea of a board which features 6 possible starts rather than just 1 seems to me a worthwhile thing to pursue. At least 6 times the replay, but much more in actuality, since the bonuses allow for so many potentially different purchasing strats.

@knp7765:

@Gamerman01:

Not everyone agrees the Allies need a bid

I agree with you. I don’t care for bids either. I think either side can win if played right with the setup as is.

That being said, Grasshopper’s list is very interesting. I think you should spice things up though. Make ONE of the dice rolls end up in a $15 bid for the Axis. Perhaps an extra German tank in Poland, an extra Italian tank in Tobruk and an extra Japanese infantry in Kwangsi.
The Allies still have a 5/6 chance of getting some padding for themselves. But now there is a 1/6 chance that the Allies will have to go without.

lol that’s insane.  It would be radical enough to have a 1/6 chance that the Allies get no bid, but to give 15 to the Axis?  Most players would give up before playing if they rolled that.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

I doubt it, you could just divide the number by 2 and round up.  They do have a nice roll to them……

This concept is good.

But to be simpler you could also just subtract 6 from any roll between 7 and 12.

I also prefer the roll of the dice.  I suppose I ought to be careful as I have never played out a game in LL.  I really enjoy the different directions that game often takes based on dice rolls.  Every game can be a different game whereas in LL I can see the game tending to play out along predictable ways.  That being said, re-rolls of early outrageous dice should be considered and I have allowed it and suggested it in my games when I was the beneficiary of the opponents bad dice.  If I win, it’s not going to be because my opponent got diced early.

I think it adds to the game when you have to consider and plan for unlikely outcomes.  It forces you to use more forces than you would like to and to hold some forces back for contingency plans.  Everyone is a competent general and planner when the dice are going their way.  The mark of a truly good tactician is the ability to build in flexibility to account for unlikely dice outcomes.  If dice are always determining the outcomes of your game then maybe you ought to play a bit differently.

OH my poor memory… nevermind… :oops: