Converting to KJF

@crockett36

I’m not really following here.

4 destroyers, 2 submarines, 4 fighters, 4 tactical bombers, 2 battleships, 2 bombers and a cruiser, all up against 1 sub, 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, a battleship, and a carrier with a tactical bomber and fighter and I assume the reason you want to use territories such as Wake Island and Guam is for the opportunity to scramble those planes… I hate to be the bearer of bad news but even 3 planes scrambled into the Sea zone isn’t enough (did the math, tested the averages and it doesn’t work).

America at most might clear out all the cannon faughter that the Japanese bring forward which would be their subs and destroyers, leaving all their big heavier ships still alive and undamaged.

I’m not sure if you realize how close Calcutta is to Japan. J2, capture French Indo China J3 put a complex on it whilst capture Malaya since as the British if you’re reinforcing Yunnan with everything you have then you’re going to leave Malaya open to attack by naval forces, J4 put a major industrial complex there then pump out the 10 units and now your southern flank is just as strong if not stronger than you’re northern flank.

As per ‘stacking’ Yunnan, assuming Japan continues to role through China by J2 China is only left with a meager 5 IPC’s, with Japan having overwhelmed Yunnan, and NOT having declared war on the British, preventing them from moving into Yunnan to support the Chinese, (Unless you want to move them in as a declaration of war, keeping the Americans out of the war into turn 4, which I’d welcome).

The reason Japan lost WWII to America is because the United States merely had to let Japan burn themselves out on the Americans, throwing everything they had at them and then moving forward. If that’s what you as the American player do to Japan than a Japanese victory is clear. Japan starts with a bigger navy, a much bigger Airforce than America, and moving your units into the Japanese Sphere of influence like that is pretty much throwing them away. As the player playing japan, I would absolutely welcome America to put the majority of their money in the Pacific.

Like General Hand Grenade said, there’s no magic bullet or secret passage to beating the Germans or the Japanese within the first 3-4 turns, and your especially not going to be getting to the home base of Japan in that time span either simply because of what you said… ships. As Japan, I have the first 3 turns to build as many ships as I please before I start pumping out land units to take Calcutta with my factories on Malaya and French Indo China, ground units aren’t a priority for me until turn 4, leaving me to build up my navy from what it already is, increase the carrier count to 5 aircraft carriers, and if you as the U.S don’t have atleast 3 by then well… you’ve lost the Pacific, because like I said the Sub strategy would be a great idea… if my fighters and tac bombers can’t hit them, but they can as long as theres a destroyer present. Also, assuming you’re talking about strategic bombers in central united states, well they wouldn’t reach since Wake Island would be captured by incoming japanese invasion of transports.

So at the end of the day if I don’t win as Japan, I know Germany will.

@thedesertfox Very well stated, this is why after many years of countless play since this game has been out, No One has proven that a KJF works better than a KGF!!!

@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:

@thedesertfox Very well stated, this is why after many years of countless play since this game has been out, No One has proven that a KJF works better than a KGF!!!

Come on nolimit. You can find away. You have nolimits to your strategies !!!

@gen-manstein Perhaps, however I ain’t the Almighty- Even the NoLimit has to bow to the unfortunate facts of oob G40 being AXIS favored!!!

@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:

@crockett36

I’m not really following here.

4 destroyers, 2 submarines, 4 fighters, 4 tactical bombers, 2 battleships, 2 bombers and a cruiser, all up against 1 sub, 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, a battleship, and a carrier with a tactical bomber and fighter and I assume the reason you want to use territories such as Wake Island and Guam is for the opportunity to scramble those planes… I hate to be the bearer of bad news but even 3 planes scrambled into the Sea zone isn’t enough (did the math, tested the averages and it doesn’t work).

America at most might clear out all the cannon faughter that the Japanese bring forward which would be their subs and destroyers, leaving all their big heavier ships still alive and undamaged.

I’m not sure if you realize how close Calcutta is to Japan. J2, capture French Indo China J3 put a complex on it whilst capture Malaya since as the British if you’re reinforcing Yunnan with everything you have then you’re going to leave Malaya open to attack by naval forces, J4 put a major industrial complex there then pump out the 10 units and now your southern flank is just as strong if not stronger than you’re northern flank.

As per ‘stacking’ Yunnan, assuming Japan continues to role through China by J2 China is only left with a meager 5 IPC’s, with Japan having overwhelmed Yunnan, and NOT having declared war on the British, preventing them from moving into Yunnan to support the Chinese, (Unless you want to move them in as a declaration of war, keeping the Americans out of the war into turn 4, which I’d welcome).

The reason Japan lost WWII to America is because the United States merely had to let Japan burn themselves out on the Americans, throwing everything they had at them and then moving forward. If that’s what you as the American player do to Japan than a Japanese victory is clear. Japan starts with a bigger navy, a much bigger Airforce than America, and moving your units into the Japanese Sphere of influence like that is pretty much throwing them away. As the player playing japan, I would absolutely welcome America to put the majority of their money in the Pacific.

Like General Hand Grenade said, there’s no magic bullet or secret passage to beating the Germans or the Japanese within the first 3-4 turns, and your especially not going to be getting to the home base of Japan in that time span either simply because of what you said… ships. As Japan, I have the first 3 turns to build as many ships as I please before I start pumping out land units to take Calcutta with my factories on Malaya and French Indo China, ground units aren’t a priority for me until turn 4, leaving me to build up my navy from what it already is, increase the carrier count to 5 aircraft carriers, and if you as the U.S don’t have atleast 3 by then well… you’ve lost the Pacific, because like I said the Sub strategy would be a great idea… if my fighters and tac bombers can’t hit them, but they can as long as theres a destroyer present. Also, assuming you’re talking about strategic bombers in central united states, well they wouldn’t reach since Wake Island would be captured by incoming japanese invasion of transports.

So at the end of the day if I don’t win as Japan, I know Germany will.

While I agree generally that the USA cant rush things and Japan should smash any USA fleet that moves forward so soon, you cant build a major factory on either FIC or Malaya.

The only legal place for a major is Korea.

@squirecam

I know you can’t build a Major Industrial Complex on French Indo China since it’s a territory only worth 2 IPC’s and you need 3 or more to build a Major one but why not Malaya? It’s got a 3 IPC value making it legal to build one right?

@thedesertfox said in Converting to KJF:

@squirecam

I know you can’t build a Major Industrial Complex on French Indo China since it’s a territory only worth 2 IPC’s and you need 3 or more to build a Major one but why not Malaya? It’s got a 3 IPC value making it legal to build one right?

You must own the territory at the start of the game and its British. And it cant be Chinese either so Manchuria is also out. The only one allowed is Korea.

@nolimit

This is true, while it ain’t impossible to find a way for the Allies to win, against competent German, Italian and japanese players you’re really only left with 1 hope and that is to hope that they screw up somewhere along the lines.

Nah I’m just joshin’ around there likely is a way but it would involve the Americans going after both the Germans and Japanese, since you can’t leave Japan alone in the Pacific, you just can’t, not gonna say why since it’s been discussed to death why they can’t and I’m sure you guys all know why they can’t as well, but they can’t.

@squirecam

Ohhhhhhh it has to be your own starting territory???

I genuinely feel like I’m discovering new rules left and right after all my years of playing A&A…

Well that certainly does level the playing field between the Allies and the Axis a little bit, but I would still place a minor complex on Malaya instead of a major one.

@thedesertfox My Allied strategy is to go KGF, however I do leave token forces in the Pacific just to keep Japan from going crazy All over- once I get a firm foothold in Europe then I start increasing my builds towards the Pacific just to match the Japanese from taking that elusive 6th VC!

@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:

@thedesertfox My Allied strategy is to go KGF, however I do leave token forces in the Pacific just to keep Japan from going crazy All over- once I get a firm foothold in Europe then I start increasing my builds towards the Pacific just to match the Japanese from taking that elusive 6th VC!

Then if you win as Allies I would fault the Japanese player. Japan should force the USA to build in the pacific or risk losing the game. Building only a token force should result in Japan getting to 6 VC by round 6.

@crockett36 said in Converting to KJF:

@thedesertfox I’m not sure how to communicate that the American navy is bait for the second and third wave. Tell me in your math, how many Japanese ships are left after the three subs and 2 bombers and 1 fighter that swoop in on t2? How many after the third wave of 3 subs and 5 fighters?

I didn’t think anyone could build major industrial complexes on non original territories?

I would say most of them. And USA lost its entire fleet and the planes on Wake in the process. All you have left is the stuff you purchased round 1 which isnt enough against a combined fleet.

If Japan stages forward then you cant defend Wake from a J2 attack. They can just wipe your fleet and take the island too.

@squirecam Not particularly, when I said token I meant just the bare minimum to keep Japan honest- I’m also to the opinion that oob is just too Axis favored to be won by the ALLIES, all I’m saying is what’s my best strategy is in the Pacific and hoping the AXIS will slip up somewhere to give my side the advantage!

@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:

@squirecam Not particularly, when I said token I meant just the bare minimum to keep Japan honest- I’m also to the opinion that oob is just too Axis favored to be won by the ALLIES, all I’m saying is what’s my best strategy is in the Pacific and hoping the AXIS will slip up somewhere to give my side the advantage!

What exactly is the bare minimum? What token USA fleet do you think is enough to survive a J2 attack on Hawaii if Japan stages in Carolines?

@squirecam There are just Too many variables to say exactly what I would bring in, just depends on what Japan brings to the table- it’s different for every game of course!