Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]

@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

In my personal vocabulary, I consistently use the following definitions:
“Ship” includes TT, SS, DD, CA, CV, BB.
“Warship” includes only SS, DD, CA, CV, BB.

That said, for this variant’s NOs it is not very important to distinguish between different kinds of ships, so if you want to just say that the list is always “warship” for simplicity, that’s fine with me.

Therefor we can replace any reference to ‘ship’ with ‘warship’. Basically, transports don’t count
I guess this means subs are a little more important since they do have the capability to negate several National Objectives: Every Russian, 2 Japanese, 3 UK, 1 Italian and 1 American

I’m happy to play either side! I cut the cake, so you get to pick your slice. :-)

OK, as my moniker implies, axis_roll !
So I will take the bad guys…

I have a mild preference for low luck and no tech allowed so that we can more quickly arrive at a sense of where the game is unbalanced, but I certainly don’t insist on it. We can use a slightly tweaked version of your rules for low luck bombing, too – just add +1 to the damage table.

Yes, we’ll need to agree on that chart. I believe it was

Chicago Rules
1D6 = Damage
1 = 1
2,3 = 2
4,5 = 3
6 = 4

This game
1D6 = Damage
1 = 2
2,3 = 3
4,5 = 4
6 = 5

@vodot said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

@Argothair @axis_roll you guys are gonna post the game to a thread, right? 0.o

What Argothair and I have done in the past was exchange emails with combat moves, used the A&A dice roll calculator to conduct battles (this emails roll results to players), then email/exchange battlemap files representing a countries end of turn position. We used/exchanged a spreadsheet for IPC tracking as well.

Not sure how we’ll do it going for this game. Argothair?

@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

Oh, and @axis_roll? Start when you like! It’s Germany’s turn; you have my email. :-)

Wanted to run these by another member of our playing group first, just to ensure there is nothing too glaring (besides the Axis opportunities I see :dark_sunglasses: )

Then the Blitzkrieg will begin!

I forgot one more question. The black sea is open, correct?
The Dardenelles is not closed. True?

Yo hows this going ? There is a fellow AA member looking at more NOs in game.

Izz a need a saved

@SS-GEN update posted in the play board games section
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/32757/axis_roll-vs-argothair-aa50-balanced-mod-playtest

Yes the Pacific always seems to be the problem.:busts_in_silhouette:
Have you thought about making the islands in the Pacific more of a 3 Island Group No ?
Does Australia have any ships ?
Try giving UK Pacific more ships ?
Does UK make enough money to buy ships in Australia or India ?

@SS-GEN There are many ways to try and balance the game, as you have suggested. Argothair was trying to do so with his minimalist approach of only altering the National Objectives.

The new NOs are close, but not enough to help in India/South Pacific theater. India’s vulnerability in AA50 is way overstated, as well as Japans ability to help fight in Africa (even the med too!). I don’t know if just National Objective changes can ‘fix’ these issues.

@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

@SS-GEN There are many ways to try and balance the game, as you have suggested. Argothair was trying to do so with his minimalist approach of only altering the National Objectives.

The new NOs are close, but not enough to help in India/South Pacific theater. India’s vulnerability in AA50 is way overstated, as well as Japans ability to help fight in Africa (even the med too!). I don’t know if just National Objective changes can ‘fix’ these issues.

If the NOs aren’t enough then ya setup change maybe ? But wasn’t Arg plan to change setup. I’m just saying for me its always comes down to Japan and slowing them down.

Then its take away some pieces from japan and maybe add that allies Factory that was discussed. Later
Looking forward to what you guys come up with. Good Luck

G40 SS OUT!

@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

@SS-GEN There are many ways to try and balance the game, as you have suggested. Argothair was trying to do so with his minimalist approach of only altering the National Objectives.

The new NOs are close, but not enough to help in India/South Pacific theater. India’s vulnerability in AA50 is way overstated, as well as Japans ability to help fight in Africa (even the med too!). I don’t know if just National Objective changes can ‘fix’ these issues.

@axis_roll, usually ‘overstated’ would mean “it’s not as bad as people say it is”- but in your case it seems like you mean more like “It’s worse than it should be”. India is too vulnerable; Japan is too able to fight in Africa/Med, etc… You guys are playing with just the NO adjustments and no bid, right?

@vodot
overstate
verb (used with object), o·ver·stat·ed, o·ver·stat·ing.
to state too strongly; exaggerate:

India was never as near as susceptible to Japanese conquest in the real war as it is in AA50. So when I say that AA50 “overstates India’s vulnerability”, I mean that the game makes India far too easy to take by the Japanese.

@vodot You guys are playing with just the NO adjustments and no bid, right?

Correct, No tech, dice average, and Argothairs latest National Objectives (which contains a small chinese mod)

@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

@vodot
overstate
verb (used with object), o·ver·stat·ed, o·ver·stat·ing.
to state too strongly; exaggerate:

India was never as near as susceptible to Japanese conquest in the real war as it is in AA50. So when I say that AA50 “overstates India’s vulnerability”, I mean that the game makes India far too easy to take by the Japanese.

Right, makes sense- I knew what you meant, especially given all of the preceding discussion; I think when I first read that sentence I mentally inserted the words “Reports of” in front of the words “India’s vulnerability…” which really would invert the meaning. I think. Apologies for any unintentional grammatical fascism :)

Related to legitimizing the PTO, and this is a very old thought, but what about splitting the US economy ala G40 UK?

When I used to have 7 people over to play revised we would add Italy for the 6th player (using pact of steel rules + setup from triplea), but for the 7th player we would split the US economy at CUS (which counted for both sides), then add +10IPCs to each half. Players could still go all in on KGF or KJF, if they wanted, but naval forces and/or ground units would then have to be produced in their respective IC centers and moved manually to the other side of the board. This is a little bit arbitrary, but it almost always resulted in a real PTO for the US and led to some fun times and climactic fights over the islands.

I can’t speak to precise balance (except to say that I could win as either side without a bid, but that is hardly an accomplishment when you are teaching a game) and the whole thing is going to be shaded by the relative strengths and weaknesses of the POS setup, one of which was (IIRC) a stronger UK in Europe and in the PTO in particular.