Been playing since 1985, mostly play Anniversary Edition (1941).
@vodot said in axis_roll vs. Argothair (AA50 Balanced Mod playtest):
I confess, looking at those two maps back-to-back I mostly thought to myself “man, @axis_roll is good at Axis and Allies.”
AA50 is my game of choice :)
+1 for side-swappage.
That will probably be next game, when I am the allies
Also, @Argothair/someone, can you remind me where that SA factory came from? Was that a bid or UK1 buy?
The UK IC in South Africa was a UK turn 1 buy.
I like this idea allot. I think your secondary ideas (bullets 1 thru 4) are good starting additonal thoughts at this point until you’ve tried to play a few games with the initial ideas/concept to see if the Colonial Outpost is too strong for the Allies or not enough help for the Allies.
I surmise that just the CO might not be enough for the allies, though.
So to your point about the CO as part of a bid, I propose that the side that has the advantage (in AA50, the Axis) bid progressively larger amounts to give the weaker side (Allies in AA50) to have the ‘stronger’ side. For example, I will take the Axis and give the Allies $10 (in bid units or IPCs). Opposing player may believe he can still win with the Axis giving up more than $10 IPCs, so he says he will take the Axis and give the Allies $15 (in bid units or IPCs). This goes back and forth until the Allied play accepts the extra units.
Instead of starting at $1 IPC and bidding higher, the starting bid for the Axis is the Colonial Outpost (as described aboove). Now the opposing player can bid for the Axis giving the CO + $3 IPCs… on so on.
So, should standard bid placement restrictions would be in play (like 1 unit per TT?) I believe you should be able to put one unit with the CO complex.
@vodot said in [Various] The Colonial Outpost (an enhanced Allied IC bid):
The four setups I want to evaluate for this rule are 42.2, 42.2TR, Anniversary '41, and Anniversary '42. For starters, for each of these setups, I want to look at a few obvious destinations for the OC (India, Australia, Egypt, SA, Hawaii, and SFE), and for each examine the strongest possible Axis response on turns 1-5, compared to Allied reinforcement potential. The result will be a table I’ll post below as I test. You veterans, are there other locations you think are worth checking for the first round of tests?
I can only speak strongly of AA50-41, that is what we mostly play.
Two others on your list might be a USA colonial outpost in brazil. Also, If russian were going to pressure Japan, I think a bryatia IC might be better than the SFE listed. USA can support with fighters off SZ56 based carriers.
BRY is more positionally valued than SFE.
Other comments on current list (ordered in highest to least valuable):
India. Best all around, will need initial help from russia to sustain
Egypt. Can you hold it round 1? if so, very key as well
South Africa. Good, solid way to fight the Africa Korps and hold onto UK IPCs. Will the axis commit that much to africa?
Australia. To use most effectively, USA needs a fleet to back up small UK navy that would help to take back UK islands
Hawaii. Don’t see too much advantage to a 2-unit producing 1 sea zone forward naval base.
Soviet Far East. might be acceptable since farther away from Japan mainland
@Argothair Any update(s) on these rules? Have you play tested them any further or switched to a different new shiny object to keep your attention? :relaxed: :relaxed:
You know I mean that in a good way, as you like your novelty over the “same-old, same-old”
It’s interesting to see what is focused on during the several hours over two episodes. Several times, the macro level story glossed over the details or showed them incorrectly. For example, they said in 9 minutes, USA sank 4 carriers in the battle of Midway. Not true…
What’s interesting is that the latest generation (even my own daughter, aged 28) knows little about WWII, let alone the great war before that one. I mean, WWII ended almost 75 years ago, and this becomes more and more ‘a thing of the past’.
@Panther said in axis_roll vs. Argothair (AA50 Balanced Mod playtest):
@Argothair
Back in those days of ABattleMap :smile:
What do these things have in common?
battlemap, axis_roll’s computer, Original A&A 50th Edition & axis_roll for that matter!
They’re all old, but still are functional!
That’s how us old gamers roll, Panther :)
I guess I was looking at how much the allies can make, somewhat easily IMHO, in Europe. When they do this, they will also be eliminating the Axis NOs. Of course, this is just my initial take on a single read basis, and I figured you’ve put some thought into this more than I have, so I am probably missing some points (as you indicate). I need to think further about this before more commenting, and yes, game play is the only way to truly see how good ANY rule modification(s) is/are.
Things I haven’t thought about: No allied bid. Surely that will affect things early. Not being a big fan of the OOB tech, I would prefer no tech here, but do you have a preference. Some house rules are better when techs are in play, some are worse…
@Taewakan said in Russian kills German Fleet Turn 1?:
Why not sent a Russian Fighter and Bomber to take out the German Fleet on Turn 1 in the Anniversary 42 scenario. It is a 3-4 vs a 2-3. Seems like good odds to me.
You can also send a russian bomber on the Germany sz13 fleet of a Destroyer and transport. A “4” on a “2”.
@Argothair said in axis_roll vs. Argothair (AA50 Balanced Mod playtest):
Germany took the unusual step of building a Mediterranean aircraft carrier, which has created a variety of interesting threats in the Atlantic and given Russia a bit of breathing room.
Hmm. Let me know how Russia’s breathing room is after this German turn
:dark_sunglasses: :muscle:
@Argothair "For example, on turn 3, if the USA is playing with average skill and average luck, how many IPCs of NOs should they be earning if they go heavy into Europe? heavy into the Pacific? balanced in both theaters? "
I agree with having the USA be balanced, I thought I answered your “How many IPCs…?” with my post that tried to summarize the fluid NO list. (easily +$20, so $60 IPCs !)
There is only 2 NOs for ATO for USA. Much more in the Pacific (which is what is needed/wanted). We’re going to have to play some games with some initial figures to see if we’re heading in the right direction or we will {continue to} go in circles.
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One last thought, You don’t want to necessarily <overly> reward what would be a typical good move. For example, the Allies almost always conduct the Operation Torch landings into Africa, but USA is getting $5 for doing this solid move.
Try this house rule for China to have IPC’s like other allied countries:
1941 China Modifications
These changes enable China to function like a 4th allied country. China collects income at the end of a turn just like any other country. China starts the game with $7 IPCs. $2 inf for China, other unit costs are unchanged. China can save unspent IPCs. China gets to Non Combat Move their fighter and place their IC before start of game play (start of round 1). China gets an IC for mobilization of new units. The IC can move one territory per turn and place units into the just moved into territory even if China just took the territory this turn (no unit limit on placement of Chinese units).
If China or her allies capture a Japanese IC in Manchuria or Kiangsu or ANY original Chinese territory, the IC is immediately destroyed. If China captures a Japanese IC in French Indo China, the IC is destroyed. If any allied country captures a Japanese IC in Burma or Kwangtung, it would revert to UK control. If any other allied country (besides China) captures a Japanese IC in French-Indo China, the IC is not destroyed, and control would be reverted to the capturing country. If China’s IC is captured, it is destroyed, and China no longer can ‘purchase’ units. Without the IC, China can get new infantry units per out of the box rules. Chinese units may now be engaged outside of China in Burma and/or French Indo China.
China has its own National Objective:
The Burma Road If the allies control Burma and 2 of these 3 territories: India, Yunnan, and Hupeh, China receives an additional $2 during their collect income phase.
China Modifications FAQs
Are all Chinese units limited to China and Kwantung? (as per AA50)
• Chinese units may now be engaged outside of China in Burma and/or French Indo China.
Can China roll for Tech?
There is no restriction on how China spends its money.
Can the axis conduct Strategic Bombing Raids on a Chinese IC?
No, since the IC has unlimited development. The Chinese IC is limited by the fact that China has few IPCs to spend.
May Chinese infantry be placed the same as AA50? (i.e. not just at the IC)
If China still has its IC, new units may only be mobilized in the territory where the Chinese IC resides. Since the IC can move into Allied territories not under Chinese control, reference "Handling when China moves their IC out of territories under Chinese Control.” Once the Chinese IC is lost, AH original Chinese rules apply.
Can the Axis use the captured Chinese IC to build?
No. When the territory where the IC resides is captured, the IC would be destroyed.
What happens when China loses its IC but still has Chinese units / territories under Chinese control?
When China’s IC has been captured and destroyed, China reverts to getting more infantry as described in the AA50 rules. They no longer collect income in the form of IPCs, nor can they ever get any other unit than infantry
China just lost it’s last territory and still has IPCs in her bank. What happens to the IPCs?
Any Chinese IPCs go to the conqueror.
Can the Chinese fighter (the Flying Tigers) attack units in sea zones outside China if it returns to China in the same turn?
No, it can’t leave China/Burma/French Indo-China/Kwangtung, even temporarily.
@argothair said in India Complex for UK - usually a bad idea?:
@taamvan I think this says more about the weakness of the tournament design than about the game as a whole. How can you be expected to generate interesting results after only five turns of play?
One idea to make the Short time frame of that tournament more palatable to a better game is to utilize dice averaging. Less dice to roll and less wild dice outcomes to skew the results.
@Panzerboy0191 said in Should I buy this version?:
I really enjoy playing with the national advantages in revised, does this game have any? Thank you guys!
There are no OOB National Advantages like in Revised, but our Chicago Rules {for AA50-41} has some that you might want to incorporate. Send me a PM with your email if you’d like a copy.
BTW, I love the map changes in AA50 over classic, 2nd and Revised. We loved revised with the community developed house rules set AARe (Enhanced). No OOB AA game, in my humble, somewhat limited experience, has ever been balanced. In other words, with a little tweaking, the games can be balanced, and have other possible strategies other than the usual Race for Berlin/Moscow.
Good gaming!
It’s interesting to see what is focused on during the several hours over two episodes. Several times, the macro level story glossed over the details or showed them incorrectly. For example, they said in 9 minutes, USA sank 4 carriers in the battle of Midway. Not true…
What’s interesting is that the latest generation (even my own daughter, aged 28) knows little about WWII, let alone the great war before that one. I mean, WWII ended almost 75 years ago, and this becomes more and more ‘a thing of the past’.
@Plantageneto said in Operation See lion:
I’m new player and I have a doubt. Looking the 1941 setup, it’s seem too easy, in my opinion , for the Germany attempting England invasion at the first turn. Just a destroyer in sea and few units, if you calculate the punch is a 50/50
Not sure how you came up with those figures, or what you consider to be an ‘EASY’ victory, running this in dice sim, the BEST outcome I got was an 8% chance:
@general-LD said in AA gun:
Example stack up AA guns in Germany to help against bombing raids? Thanks
Radar tech is the only way to slow those bombers
@Altruex said in How to create the best gameplay for this edition?:
Very interesting. I have heard the Dardanelles strait as a limitation before but never understood it. Maybe our group does not use it much, but what is the implication of closing it VS not?
The above “Chicago Rules” closing is a modified version of “Closing the Dardenelles Straight”, in the sense that Sea Zone 16 is still open, and you can reach Bulgaria, but not Ukraine and/or the Caucasus.
Implications are to keep yet another front from easily being opened against Russia. The axis can empty Africa via the Med fleet (German transport, Italian Navy) and give Russia even more headaches, especially early if Germany went on a strong Barbarossa game plan.
Couple other easier mods to slow the axis:
Restricted Dardenelles straight: Bulgaria is the only territory accessible via
transport(s) in sz16 (helps Russia with Caucasus defense)
No new complexes may be developed on an island territory (slows Japan a bit)
@Altruex
In our “Chicago Rules” for AA50-41 version, we make it easier for UK to get one of their National Objectives:
“Gain 4 IPCs if Allied powers control at least FOUR of the following territories: Eastern Canada, Western Canada, Gibraltar, Egypt, Australia, and Union of South Africa.” UK doesn’t have to control ALL those territories like the OOB NA.
Prior to altering the game board to split india into india and bangledesh, and sz35 into sz35a & sz35b, we altered the Japanese National Objective of taking either India or Australia or Hawaii for the $5 national objective. We required Japan to get TWO of those three territories to get that NA bonus.
Also, we made all axis National Advantages only worth $4.
