Send Boots on the ground to deal with ISIS?

From what I understand (and my understanding, like just about everyone else, is limited) a big source of ISIS support is the widespread feeling among Sunnis (formerly the hegemonic ethnic/religous group in Iraq) that the US and the Iraqi puppet state have sold them out.  Iraqi society and overall standard of living having steadily declined since the wars began.  The oil industry–formerly nationalized and a source of wealth for the Iraqi economy–is now in the hands of western corporate power.

In other words, ISIS is just as much an anti-imperialist movement as a fundamentalist movement.

We can safely doubt that there would be much discussion about redeploying to Iraq if there weren’t so many oil resources at stake.  In fact, there are still plenty of western military contractors deployed in Iraq to protect those resources.

This gets us back to the original reason for the war–that Saddam couldn’t be trusted with so much wealth with which he could buy weapons that could be used against Israel and other neighboring states.

I don’t dispute that ISIS is a dangerous phenomenon and that the rights of Kurds and Shiites should be protected.  But it seems like Sunnis in Iraq and Syria don’t feel like they have an alternative.  If the West wants Iraqis to support our puppet state, then we need to find a way to give Iraqis the same level of security, material comfort and well-being that they experienced under Saddam.  That may be impossible at this point, making this a no-win situation for all parties involved.   Recall that back in 2003 President Bush assured Iraqis that the USA would overthrow Saddam and then leave.

All that said, it’s also possible that ISIS is an element of the overall Western strategic plan for the region.  We have a track record of encouraging similar groups in Libya and Syria and our ally Saudi Arabia has a related religious/political ideology.  This Alex Jonesy hypothesis may sound crazy, but sadly, we live in a crazy world.  Sometimes it seems like there is a kind of public relations campaign to convince Westerners that Arabs are too barbaric to govern themselves and they should be ruled by dictators with the West safely in possession of valuable resources.

@Zhukov44:

All that said, it’s also possible that ISIS is an element of the overall Western strategic plan for the region.  We have a track record of encouraging similar groups in Libya and Syria and our ally Saudi Arabia has a related religious/political ideology.  This Alex Jonesy hypothesis may sound crazy, but sadly, we live in a crazy world.  Sometimes it seems like there is a kind of public relations campaign to convince Westerners that Arabs are too barbaric to govern themselves and they should be ruled by dictators with the West safely in possession of valuable resources.

It’s not all that far fetched and there are certainly related things like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sykes%E2%80%93Picot_Agreement

It is a matter of time before boots do land on the ground outside of the few thousand we have there currently. Whether you agree with it or not, if you ask the military to solve a problem, they are going to give you a military solution every time.

I honestly believe if we would have kept about 10,000 soldiers there after 2011, we wouldn’t be in this mess. It also would have been a heck of a lot cheaper than going back in blind.

@Gargantua:

To be frank - it’s a good strategy if that’s our intent.  I am in full agreement that it’s possibly deliberate.

#1 - there are lots of different extremists, and it’s better to have your enemies fighting your enemies
#2 - It’s better that they are fighting over there, than bringing it all to your local downtown core.
#3 - The existence of extremists, and their ever present threat, validates gobs of military spending, which to some degree maintains a system of relative and balanceable world social stability.

In addition, perhaps the Allies hope to break up Iraq into 3 or more states.  It makes each state more dependent on Western military to protect it from the others.  Each state would be more reluctant to nationalize resources or otherwise defy the empire.  And a pan-nationalist Arab movement is less likely to emerge if the region is divided between shia and sunni.

@Zhukov44:

In addition, perhaps the Allies hope to break up Iraq into 3 or more states.  It makes each state more dependent on Western military to protect it from the others.  Each state would be more reluctant to nationalize resources or otherwise defy the empire.  And a pan-nationalist Arab movement is less likely to emerge if the region is divided between shia and sunni.

I think this idea has already happened in the past and is perhaps the reason we have the current problems. If nothing else this seems like taking our (western) meddling to a whole different level. Or at the very least being frank about strategies we have been employing for decades.

@Gargantua:

#1 - there are lots of different extremists, and it’s better to have your enemies fighting your enemies

Kerry dismissed the idea of Iran joining the coalition as “inappropriate” even though they are volunteering their help.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-29172524

More interesting perhaps: Iran is joining the fight anyways. They have military units inside Iraq already.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/26/world/meast/iran-president-amanpour-interview/

I’m afraid the ground invasion is inevitable.

NASA says a limited nuclear war will lower global temperatues.  Let’s solve two problems at once and Nuke it all

Here is a better deal:
Build in both poles a tower hundred miles in height. At each tower top mount 100 jet engines, 1000 is better. These engines are blowing in the north and south poles in opposite directions. The earth’s axis will change the angle so that Asia will be on the dark side of the Earth. Tsunamis will flush Russia away due to the melting of Antarctica. China would be in the permafrost zone.
A pleasant mild climate will be established in entire American continent.
In Africa, the climate will be like in Siberia now. Africans will learn to shoot down the pine nuts with wooden mallets. A bit sorry about Australia. They didn’t do anything wrong, but not much good either. So, let it be. Not sure about Europe. We’ll see.

Or collapse?

Iraq needs to get broken into three separate states based on ethnic groups. Or bring in a dictatorship, the current Iraq cannot survive.

This article which was published by the CBC today…

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/how-isis-and-syria-drove-a-stake-through-the-arab-spring-1.2785736

…argues that the whole ISIS mess could have been avoided if Arab states had responded positively over the years to the calls made by peaceful moderates for political and economic reform.  Instead of doing so, the leaders of these states fixated on maintaining the status quo and used harsh measures to quell what they regarded as dissent.  The result?  Resentment, instabilty, increasing support for extremist groups, and eventually revolution and chaos.

@Gargantua:

Perhaps the Turks declare war today, and we see a welcomed resurgence of the OTTOMAN EMPIRE!

lol OTTOMANNS EMPIRE…everywhere I look, I see OTTOMANNS EMPIRE.
They now call 'em Kebap House.
It is a foodchain, nothing to worry about! :-D

A three state solution will only create more problems in the region. They won’t really be states anyways, they will be proxies for their more powerful neighbors.(aside from the Kurds). A sunni state will be backed by the Saudi’s and their kinsman around the arabian peninsula. The shia portion would be backed by the Iranian’s and likely Assad if he wins the civil war there. The Kurds, will be marginalized by all sides because they are a large demographic in all these surrounding countries and an independence movement on their part would cause problems in Iran, Turkey, and Syria because they have large minorities of this ethnic group. It would also cause problems for an Iraqi Kurdistan that wouldn’t be able to support a large influx of their ethnic brethren that would undoubtedly move to a legitimized homeland.

It is a recipe for disaster even greater than what we are seeing today.

Yes, three state solution is a terrible idea.  Was a terrible idea in 2008 when Joe Biden suggested it, terrible idea now.

Hate to say it but maybe higher-ups don’t in Ankara mind ISIS thinning the Kurdish population since they’ve had so many problems with them over the years.

It is a matter of time before western soldiers start doing offensive operations… I imagine the US is going to wait until after the poll results comein next month…

There is movement…that’s all I can say…