Besides anyone with knowledge knows that Kam. Pilots were all volunteers and only existed out of desperation.
Favourite WW2 General or Field Marshall
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General Motors. I can’t recall his first name for some strange reason, but he can be credited with the production of vast quantities of armaments, vehicles, and aircraft for the Allied war effort during World War II. I think he lived in Deroit.
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General Motors also made vehicles, and vehicle parts for the Germans BEFORE America entered the war… :P
And Paulus was an idiot.
Eating steak and lobster, whilst his soldiers literally died of Starvation in the cauldron…
Then Paulus turned his back on his people, and participated in Communist propoganda/radio broadcasts.
A seargant once asked him what the “plan” was, and Paulus’s response was basically “I leave that up to you, I’m only here for the strategic decisions, the tactical department is yours.”
Watch the documentary Stalingrad, and you’ll never like Paulus again.
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Don’t think you should put silly things on my threads, Marc.
Somebody already did that.
Tell me your real favourite general, please.
And Garg: I forgot(conveniently) paulus’ disgracing himself with those broadcasts.
Definitely not on my list of favourite Generals. -
Sad to hear that you think about Paulus that way and I would have agreed with you both a few years back, but:
First off - watching all these documentries doesn´t make us an expert and sometimes using our common sense does straighten things out.
Let´s pretend Paulus did shoot himself as a FM, there would have been no better treatment for the rest of the 90 000 landser left, you might disagree allready but you have to know that the soviets took their time until the start usually counting the prisoners they made so , a few hundreds or thousands less would have made no diffrents to them…Paulus took the blame and did not expect that anybody understands why he did what he did.
(To Surrender and NOT to kill himself)
He was the puppet of course for both sides but made this decission to save lives.
He was bassically forced to die sooner or later anyway because hitler disregarded any useful advice…FM Paulus had a good career. He joint the NKFD National Commitee Free Germany in 1944 so one and a half year later…He would have been the hero of stalingrag if it would have worked out to bring victory over Stalingrad but instead…
Like I said I give him the credit to not take the bullet, instead saving lives for no honor…He gave his life so 6000 could make their way home to Germany in 1957… -
You might be right Aequitas, I just place honour above all other qualities( would have made a great medieval knight), so I prefer death over dishonour. I believe that would have better served his men and shown he was taking responsibilities for his actions: taking them in to a trap he could not get them out of. Perhaps it was not his fault, but he was the head.
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In victory or defeat, had Paulus attempted to break the 6th Army out of the Stalingrad pocket, how would we view his career?
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If he had been a -real- hero, and had dignity, he would have told hitler to stuff it - to his own personal detriment, and saved 50,000+ german lives, by breaking out of the pocket, with total disregard to Hitler’s Stupidity.
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I know. Manstein got to within, I think, 30 miles, and his men all thought they were going to break out, but he never gave the order. That was his moment to show his real qualities and he failed the test. I think that is unforgivable. I think he was the wrong choice for commander of the East Front’s biggest(20 Divisions at one point) Army.
It always saddens me.
Worsham: suppose he would have been shot for disobeying Hitler, but it would have left him a better name to posterity. And that is all we have when we have gone, isn’t it?
May have set a precedent and possibly changed how Hitler viewed retreats. After all, the Germans(Manstein in particular) were excellent in an elastic defence, always punishing the over stretched Russians( Kharkov). -
the Original plan how to conquer Stalingrad was changed by Hitler Three times before the actual attempt, FM Paulus Forces have been allready stripped down by hitler to a size were it had been allready questionable to even consider a victory over Stalingrad.
The parts of the 6. Army had allready reached a state of exhaustment on the march from Woronesh to Stalingrad, there was no pause , no halt for a while and they began switching from marching mode immediatly into fighting modus with not much heavy equipment support except the Luftwaffe at the outskirts of Stalingrad.
Yes it is known that Paulus hesitated to give the order of breaking out, but at that time the condition of the 6. Army was allready in very bad shape…FM Paulus came from the Prussian Officer Corpse so he understoood honor and the value of it…Yes it was his first command in field, given at 1. january 1942.
He obeyed any given order except the one to take his own life.
It is just not making him a bad General and again he gave his life up so others could live…@ Gar. beeing a Hero doesn´t mean you kill your self for nonsense because the perimeter of dignity were allready fading away in these battles of stalingrad…sometimes heros don´t get all the awards just because they diid something that was akward or not noble in others eyes…
@ worsham: Â FM Paulus took parts in the Poland, France and Russian campaign and worked out the Russian campaign with others…so he had quiet a career
@ Wittmann: we all don´t have a better name to posterity only a Free will in lifetime and the choice is yours in wich hands you want to lay it!..
paulus wasn´t the best General but he did the best he could do, Hitler himself may provoked his decission in the end to not give up his life…
I agree with you all to disagree… -
Of course. Thank you for posting and your thoughts on Paulus.
Have read quite a bit on Stalingrad, but is not a subject I love, because of its outcome. -
@aequitas:
@ worsham: � FM Paulus took parts in the Poland, France and Russian campaign and worked out the Russian campaign with others…so he had quiet a career
I don’t think many of us take away from Paulus pre Stalingrad career. I look back into WWI history and his unit fought at Verdun, and had the deepest advance into the French positions.
But, on the biggest stage he was faced with a monsterous choice at Stalingrad and chose to follow orders instead of doing what was right.
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@wittmann:
Tell me your real favourite general, please.
I don’t have a single favourite, since there are so many WWII general officers who rate highly according to one criterion or another, so I’ll settle for someone I mentioned a couple of years ago in a different thread: Major General John S. (Shirley) Wood, of the U.S. 4th Armored Division. He’s not well-known, but he was instrumental in the 4th Armored Division’s successful operations in France. He supposedly had a better grasp than Patton of the technical aspects of tank warfare (notably the critical importance of trucks), and he innovated in various ways to make his forces operated more effectively. For example, he had Air Force liaison officers ride with his front-line troops, so that they could call in air strikes on the spot without going through the usual channels. He maintained good relations with the Air Force by having his empty supply trucks return from the front loaded with cases of liberated cognac, which they delivered to air bases, and he always made a point of giving the flyboys their due credit in his reports and public statements.
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Thank you.
I suppose Patton could only have done as he did by having excellent corps and Division commanders, especially Armoured ones. -
Favorite Japanese General is Minoru Sasaki.
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Worsham, what did he command or do?
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It’s hard to list an absolute favorite among quite a few able commanders, but I’ve always admired the achievements of Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, Marshal of Finland.
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@wittmann:
Worsham, what did he command or do?
He commanded the Japanese defense of New Georgia, protecting the Munda air strip. His defenses gave the U.S a difficult time. In a counter attack his men got a cash of .50 machine guns and M-1 rifles and cause a great deal of problems.
Unlike many Japanese commanders he didn’t waste his men’s lives and traded a 1:1 casualties with the U.S.
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@Herr:
It’s hard to list an absolute favorite among quite a few able commanders, but I’ve always admired the achievements of Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, Marshal of Finland.
Why, what did he do ?
The commies basically killed themselves. They attacked during winter wich always favours the defender, and the Finnish terrain with marshes also favored the defender, and the Finnish defenders were dug into Pillboxes and Blockhouses behind rivers and lakes. The commie coloumns had trucks in front and the tanks in the rear, opposite of any rational army, and they attacked in human waves against dug in machine guns, and when they attacked across a frozen lake, the Finnish artillery would barrage the ice so the commies would all drawn. The commies were stuck to the roads so Finnish skii-troops would easily bypass them and cut them off the supply. On top of that the commie soldiers were drafted from civilians that happened to be shopping for Christmas in Leningrad, and had no military training what so ever. And best of all, the commie chain of command would go from bottom to top, so if the privats did not like the orders they just changed it and the commie leader had to obey the privats. Any moron would do well fighting that retardet Red Army.
So just what exactely did Mannerheim do that makes him the most brilliant leader of the world ?
When he joined Hitler in Barbarossa, he would halt just before Leningrad and let the commies live. Imagine a game of A&A where Leningrad live, not easy to beat Russia then. And on top � of that, Mannerheim backstabbed his former allies as soon the tide changed, and joined STalin because he was winning.
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ADLERTAG what happened to you? And where is Foxy?
Nice to see you again.
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@Herr:
It’s hard to list an absolute favorite among quite a few able commanders, but I’ve always admired the achievements of Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, Marshal of Finland.
Why, what did he do ?
The commies basically killed themselves. They attacked during winter wich always favours the defender, and the Finnish terrain with marshes also favored the defender, and the Finnish defenders were dug into Pillboxes and Blockhouses behind rivers and lakes. The commie coloumns had trucks in front and the tanks in the rear, opposite of any rational army, and they attacked in human waves against dug in machine guns, and when they attacked across a frozen lake, the Finnish artillery would barrage the ice so the commies would all drawn. The commies were stuck to the roads so Finnish skii-troops would easily bypass them and cut them off the supply. On top of that the commie soldiers were drafted from civilians that happened to be shopping for Christmas in Leningrad, and had no military training what so ever. And best of all, the commie chain of command would go from bottom to top, so if the privats did not like the orders they just changed it and the commie leader had to obey the privats. Any moron would do well fighting that retardet Red Army.
So just what exactely did Mannstein do that makes him the most brilliant leader of the world ?
When he joined Hitler in Barbarossa, he would halt just before Leningrad and let the commies live. Imagine a game of A&A where Leningrad live, not easy to beat Russia then. And on top  of that, Manstein backstabbed his former allies as soon the tide changed, and joined STalin because he was winning.
are you talking about Manstein or Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim, Marshal of Finland??
and who is Foxy?…I´m puzzeld :? :?
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