Allied bid placement strategies

[DarthMaximus]

Are there any bids that would save Sz 2 and Egy?  Say an 11 bid and you go 1 inf Egy and 1 dd to sz 2.

I’m assuming Germany would ignore Sz 12/Egy and just go 2 sub, 1 ftr, 1 bom to sz 2.  I suppose you can still go 2 ftrs to Sz 12 to hit the DD at least.  That’s kinda why I’ve been hesitent to try it.

[Amon-Sul]

@Zhukov44:

In a way it’s a good thing AA50 isn’t balanced because w/o the bid it would be less interesting to play…  The bid adds spice and diversity, and as the bid ticks higher it has the potential to open up some new Allied strategies.

Some good ones include
–ss to 35.  Personal favorite, because this gives Japan palpable problems for just 6 ipc, and sometimes the sub bid leads opponents to make riskier plays on J1/J2 then they would have or should have.  Great bid against novices and experts alike.
–inf (or 2) to Egy.  While the attack on Egy is iffy even with no bid, for safety sake it’s prudent to place an inf to prevent a Round 1 dicing.  If Axis still goes for Egy with the bid unit then on average they should pay a stiff price, though occasionally it will still work.  With regard to 3-4 unit placements on Egy…that bid would be pretty useful if it’s enough for UK to threaten an attack on Libya UK1.  I have no experience with it since TripleA only allows 1 unit per territory placements.
–All to Ekr/Bel.  Think about it–the Eastern front is where the money is and where the game is usually decided.  15 ipcs in NOs for Germany, 10 ipcs in NOs for Russia.  If you can place 2-3 more offensive units in Eastern Europe it could enable R1 counterattacks that could turn the tide of that front and mean big time $ for Allies.
—All offensive land units to Bry.  Pretty risky play usually but if you’ve got a really big bid you might have enough to take down Man…this gives Japan huge headaches.
–Fig to Bry.  This gives you a free trn kill + an extra fig for Russia the rest of the game.

Plus there’s plenty of Pacific bid placements that could open the door for KJF.

great ideas zhuk :)

i ve would add only one

a sub or two in sz 12

[Violent.copper]

zhukov pretty much summed it up.

I am a fan with 11-13 ipc bid that 1inf to egypt. one inf/art/or tank in east ukraine, and one tank in belo.

13 bid 10 could go to russia 1 inf kare 1 art east ukraine 1 inf cauc to stop a kare opening which i haven’t seen work with a wide range of sucess.

i have seen a 13 bid go all to russia two arts one in eu and one in belo, and a tank in russia…that allows for a pretty good round 1 counter at the cost of egypt.

as for saving sz 2 germans have two options if you place a dd in sz 2 hit it with 2 subs a fighter and a bomber and then do sz 12 with only 2 fighters(needing only to kill the dd in 12 to save the italian fleet)this one you mentioned or they can ignore sz 2 and kill sz 9 and 12 with sub/bomber to 9, and sub/ 2fighters to12… but i am a fan of hitting sz2 if the dd bid is there but thats just preference

i have yet to see a great pacific bid work. thoughts on that are reinforce india(for a factory), that would mean something like tank in egypt, inf in india, and a inf/or better what is leftover with the bid… then move tj, to persia and tanks to persia and a the egypt fighter to india and reinforce india with russain units, a inf or two to persia round 1 or/with a tank support round two in india…usually however a good german can beat this
i dont advise doing it just some thoughts to fuel the topic

some bids that are illegal on triple A but idk if they are illegal here, 12 dollars to russia, bomber in bury and hit the jap dd and two tranies off the carolines. or you could buy two  russian subs and place sz 56 and wipe out the jap carriers and fighters off midway…these bids are illegal in triple A but idk the exact bid rules on .org

[Violent.copper]

Also another bid that is ilegal in triple A… I do not know about on here, If you want to save sz 2, place a destroyer in sz 8, block the subs.

A LEGAL bid maybe place a dd in 12 that way germany needs two hits not just one to save the italian fleet round 1 and if germnay is feeling unlucky they throw an extra unit at sz 12, and YOU MIGHT be saving sz 2 because the german needs to hit 12 with more units…the standard 1 sub two fighters against this bid gives the germans a 52% chance of winning…that being said they don’t have to win they just have to leave only a cruiser in that sz…or take out the fighter in egypt

[Violent.copper]

Also just thinking out loud I HAVE NEVER TRIED THIS OR SEEN IT DONE….

if you go the dd route you may not even need a bid in egypt… if you place the DD off the coast of india(sz 35)…the japs can only send two fighters at 35 round one thats vs two dd’s and a transport(i know they don’t defend but if it lives it gives you counter strikes) thats a 61-64% chance of winning for the japs… but if you lose as the japs that means a DD may have lived and forsure a trannie, thus allowing indian units to board and hit egypt or take back borneo/east indies and if a DD lived kill a jap trannie…again thats not how I use my bid but just some options and things to consider also i would most likely only use this bid in dice because in a LL game egypt is a given with at the VERY least a bomber if no bid is placed in it

[Jennifer]

Why would 2 submarines in SZ 63 be illegal?  Just because it can be devastating?

Not sure if I’d ever get a bid higher than 7 - to be honest, just because 8 gets into the destroyer range.  Personally, I am leaning towards Egypt due to the money in Africa, but I could see units going into Russian territories as well…make them pay for taking stuff.  Few infantry in Belarus or a couple artillery could be productive in counter attacking the Germans.

[Violent.copper]

Triple A bid rulesVVVVVVVVVV

"No bomber purchases are allowed for this game and bid combination

These IPCs may be spent on units to be placed on the board prior to game start. The IPC may be split by the allies in any way. The first restriction is that no more than one unit may be placed per territory. Naval units must go into a sea zone with existing Naval units of the same nation. Placement of naval units in empty sea zones or placement of, for example, British units with American units (and vice versa) is not allowed. Similiarly, ground/air units must be placed in the territories controlled by the same nation. However, ground units may be placed in territories that have no existing ground/air units.

Unspent IPC’s from the bid can be divided up between the Allies for spending in future turns as the Allied player desires."

That’s why it is illegal.

what I found from .org tournament rulesVVVV
"You will be bidding for the Allies.
Full placement bids.  Standard bid rules apply (can only place bid in spots where you already have units, etc.)
You will bid in IPC, but you can spend the bid on units once bidding is completed.
Bidding will be done in an Auction Style to keep everything in house.
Once brackets are assigned I (or another mod) will do a random roll for each round to see which player will start the bidding (either top player on bracket or bottom).  The players will then bid down until one player concedes the sides.

Example
Player 1 - I’ll play the Allies with 9
Player 2 - I’ll play the Allies with 7
Player 1 - I’ll play the Allies with 6
Player 2 - You win, you can take the Allies with 6"

since no units of your power start in the pacific as russia it is illegal in triple A, and by the looks of it same with on here…

if you only get 7 dollars, you are forsure playing dice… If you think 7 is enough when the dard is open (sz 16) then thats your prefernce, i won’t argue, i have seen plenty of games where the bid is higher than 7, but as of the guidelines to this post a destroyer bid is possible…agian not saying I would do it or that it is the right thing to do just pointing out the options, saving sz 2? saving 12? saving 35? who knows, but I feel that was the point of this post was to discuss possibilites and not every game counts so if you want to get ridiculous place a crazy bid, you still will have a fun game.

[Jennifer]

I guess.  It’s been a while since I played hot and heavy with Anniversary, but I am loathe to give my opponent more than 2 units!

[DarthMaximus]

For forum games here:

A bomber bid to Bry is legal.  (since russia has units there)
Russian subs are not.  (no russian ships in Pac)

@Cmdr:

I guess.  It’s been a while since I played hot and heavy with Anniversary, but I am loathe to give my opponent more than 2 units!

It may take you a few games to get back into the swing.  But I’m guessing, 7 probably won’t be enough unless you really like playing the Allies.

8-11 seems standard right now.  But there have been quite a few with 12+ depending on who you play.

[Amon-Sul]

if i get it good it is illegal to place units in the territory and sz where your nation already do not have any units right?

[gamerman01]

For A&A.org:
Units must be joining unit(s) of the same power, and must be put on a territory controlled by the power (relevant for 1942 scenario).

So Germany can’t place units on Libya in 1942 and USA can’t put units on Great Britain.
DD blocking in Z8 and Russian subs in Pacific are not allowed (as Darth said) because there are no UK units in Z8 and no Russian units anywhere in the Pacific at game start.

Russian bomber on Bry to sink destroyer at 51 plus 2 transports is very risky. I would never do it against good competition. There is only a 57% chance the bomber sinks everything and survives. There is a 29% chance you trade the bomber for the destroyer. There is a 14.3% chance you lose and don’t sink the destroyer. Any part of the 43% is a horrible failure for your 12 bid, and you have no help in Egypt or Russia or the Atlantic.

Bids are over-rated, more often than not. Unlike Jenn, I have no problem allowing more than 2 units. I gave a bid of 19 to a very worthy opponent, and he took fighter to Bry (free sink of transport and fighter for rest of game like Zhuk said) and 3 infantry to Egypt (he could have added SIX units!). It’s now round 15, and I think it’s been a lock for my Axis for a couple of rounds now.
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=24311.600

As Darth said, bids greater than 12 can be appropriate, depending on the players. In my experience, what happens with the dice on round 1 far outweighs any puny little bid of 12 or less. Bids are a great way to agree on sides, and not much more.

To address the original question, I think all the obvious places are good.
Russian front but not in BSt, Ukr, or EPl.
Fighter to Bry
At LEAST one infantry to Egypt (I agree with Zhuk - go with 2 units or more to prevent disaster) As Axis, I will attack Egypt on G1 even with one extra infantry there. Hit and run and let the Italians clean up on I1. In round 2 of the tournament I did precisely that, and the Germans took it over with a tank and bomber remaining. Opening round dice always matter a lot more than a bid. I’ve seen so many bids completely negated by round 1 dice or be rendered useless.
Sub to 35 may or may not be very effective. Sometimes it is, sometimes not so much.
Have thought about destroyer to 12, but never done it or had it done against me. Would increase your chances of saving Z2, but if you don’t add anything to Egypt at the same time, you’re just asking the German player to paste Egypt and hit zone 12 hard, leaving Z2. Yes, you get to start with 2 transports and a battleship, but pretty much losing your bid and Egypt would not be pretty. Maybe if you got a 13 bid and put a destroyer in 12 and a tank in Egypt?

I put an infantry and tank in Egypt in my Semi-Finals tournament game against the great Yoshi, and he went after North Africa hard - transporting Germans there for a couple turns and keeping some German air south, chasing my enlarged Egypt force south for the rest of the game. So even 8 IPC’s added to Egypt don’t ensure you trap the Italian fleet in the Med. At this point I’m thinking I should have let him have the Allies at 9 or 11 or whatever. But then again, he was blessed with no disasters on the first round, and I had a huge disaster on R2 so that pretty much set the direction for the game. It’s in about round 8 - you can see it here: http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=25806.240 So against a lesser opponent 8 may be ample for Egypt, but this game seems to indicate that 3-4 units in Egypt are not overkill.

[Amon-Sul]

good post gamer :)

i think the game will evolve in the future and that the bid will rise

[DarthMaximus]

I agree with Gamer that good/bad rd 1 dice can be more important than a bid, but I do think bids can be pretty influential.

Recently I’ve been doing more heavy Russian bids (only 1 unit to Egy).  Maybe I’m tempting fate by giving Ger the option to attack, but IMO its not a great risk for Ger so I’m fine with it.  And if I can get away with holding Egy with only 1 inf then great.  IMO, Europe is the bigger initial threat to the Allies, so I like to set up Russian counters and make sure Ger/Ita can’t set up the can-opener threat.

Actually let me expand on that a bit. 
1 inf to Egy is enough IF you have at least a 10 bid (1 inf, 1 rt to Russia).

I wouldn’t go 1 inf to Egy, if I only had 6, at that point you might as well just put 2 inf there.
That said, I’d never bid 6 nowadays.

If you are getting double digit bids, you can get away with 1 inf to Egy because you can put pressure more directly on the Axis elsewhere.  Which is why I like some variation of:

1 inf Egy, 2-3 units to Russia (bid range 10-14) to be placed on Bel and/or Euk.
You need at least 1 additional attacking unit for Russia (rt or arm) but I prefer two so I’ve been bidding 11+ for 2 rt to Russia 1 inf to Egy.  That said I’ll gladly take more.  :-)

In this case I’m perfectly okay with Ger taking the shot at Egy and if they don’t I saved Egy with minimal reinforcements.
The reason I’m okay with it is:
1)  I’ve been in games like the one Gamer describes with Yoshi, and it is much worse dealing with a larger Axis presence in Afr.  I’d rather have the troops thinned out and picking them off with the Safr/Trj/Per/Ind troops.  It seems regardless of bid to Egy (all units bid to Egy), if the Axis want North Afr they can probably have it.
2a)  It encourages Germany to use the bomber here and not in Sz 2
2b)  Perhaps forces a lighter attack on Sz 12 as well, maybe only two ftrs, so you should be able to kill at least 1 G ftr on G1
3)  If they don’t use the bomber, they risk some real bad losses.
4)  If Ita does clean up, I’d rather them have it then Ger, and I’d still have my Uk ftr and would killed the G trn.
5)  Finally, the worst case for Ger can be really bad - they bring the bom and get slaughtered in Egy (retreat planes) doing minimal damage, they lose Sz 2 (or fail to kill the trn) as a result and lose a ftr (or two) in Sz 12 really putting them on the defensive as they now have to deal with the Russian bid units and UK already with 2 trns.

The downside is as, Gamer points out, Ger gets lucky and takes it.
But what did you really lose?  1 extra inf.  Again, as Gamer points out round 1 dice rolls can have more of an impact and that 1 inf can be made up by any number of dice rolls throughout the game.  As long as the rest of your bid was well placed you’ll be fine.

That said I don’t think it is bad to place two (or more units) to Egy, I just prefer having additional help for Russia.

[Amon-Sul]

i agree with U DM. i would even say maybe nothing to egy and all to eastern front

[gamerman01]

Enjoyed the post, DM
Good points

[DarthMaximus]

Its good to know all the early butt kickings I took are starting to pay off.  :lol:

I think we’ll probably end up with 2 main schools of thought.  The Africa bid where you are placing 2-4+ units in Egy and the Europe bid where you go 2-3(4+) in Europe and maybe 1(0) in Afr.

I think both are solid, and really could depend on your preferred playing style and your opponent.

I think the naval or Pacific bids be a 3rd in terms of usage.

[axis_roll]

Combined with an early Allied assault on the Med navy, the heavy allied african bid can really slow Germany/Italy’s expansion.  Some players think it’s a bit costly, trading either USA planes or UK planes for the med fleet.  Keeping Italy from getting both her NO’s can make up for some of this sacrifice.

Allot depends on how well Russia is played as well, because if Germany’s all over Eastern Europe, Africa is a non-factor.

[Zhukov44]

DM I agree with your reasoning–you are fine placing only 1 inf in Egy.  That attack is only 40% for Germany and requires the use of their bomber, which means there will be a higher risk of failure in sz12 and sz2.  That deployment is just too risky and will benefit Allies on average.

There’s also an argument for omitting the inf and giving the entire bid to Russia, based on the theory that Germany shouldn’t be attacking Egy even without the bid unit.  The attack on Egy is only 75%, and it involves greater risk at sz2 and sz12.

So far I rarely have the guts to go without the Egy bid though, since I’m not comfortable risking the possibility that Germany could attack 2, 12, and Egy and succeed everywhere.

[gamerman01]

@Zhukov44:

So far I rarely have the guts to go without the Egy bid though, since I’m comfortable risking the possibility that Germany could attack 2, 12, and Egy and succeed everywhere.

Did you mean not comfortable?  You don’t want someone to succeed on 2, 12 and Egypt all at once, right?  :-)

[Guest]

There is only one way allies should bid in 41.
Bid should be:

inf egypt
rest goes to soviet, use it only against germany

No fishy bids against japan, no navy bid for uk, if axis knows what to do you have lost already. Germany will hit Karelia, Egypt, Baltic, EP and Ukraine on the same time, game over…

If anyone disagree ill show the move.