League General Discussion Thread

[gamerman01]

@Martin said in League General Discussion Thread:

@MrRoboto thank you for the effort - I love this automation in the way you described it. I always wondered how it could be possible to manually adjust all points of past opponents and all of their opponents etc. following a new game result.

Not as bad as it would seem, apparently.
MrRoboto also called it impossible… It’s not that bad… :)

Busy moving into my house, will catch up later, I can’t read everything that’s going on right now, just so you all know

[crockett36]

Thank you G-man, Mr R for your work here. Very valuable! I am surprised by the BM result. I am also excited by the oob results.

Honestly, the top player results are the only results I am interested in. Everything else is player error. Am I wrong?

[pacifiersboard]

BM rule question: Are battleships / cruisers carrying marines considered transports, in general and in terms of following question in particular?

@pacifiersboard said in pacifiersboard (X) vs. Ghostglider (L +12) BM:

@Ghostglider said in pacifiersboard (X) vs. Ghostglider (L +12) BM:

I am certain, but I don’t know the correct place to reference.
A fast google-search find below:

https://axisallies.com/rules/axis-allies-rules-pacific1940-2nd-edition.pdf

Page 16: If a transport loads
land units during the Combat Move phase, it must offload those units to attack a hostile territory as part of an amphibious
assault during the Conduct Combat phase, or it must retreat during the sea combat step of the amphibious assault sequence
while attempting to do so.

good one. I think that this BM feature possibly is not covered by an official ruling? Only found in Game Notes:

• (PE) Transports can only be loaded in 1 phase (not both), and unloaded in 1 phase (not both).
• (PE) Transports if unloading for amphibious assault must unload all units loaded in the combat move phase and may not hold back some units while offloading other units unless the units held back were loaded in previous rounds.

@Panther @gamerman01
Is there already an answer to this Balanced Mod related rule question?

[farmboy]

@pacifiersboard as as far as I’m aware, that rule applies to marines on battleships and cruisers as well. So if you load marines on a combat move, they need to be making an amphibious assault that turn. Its why you will often see players leaving the marines on the Battleship and Cruiser rather than landing them on a NCM.

[Adam514]

@pacifiersboard said in League General Discussion Thread:

BM rule question: Are battleships / cruisers carrying marines considered transports, in general and in terms of following question in particular?

@pacifiersboard said in pacifiersboard (X) vs. Ghostglider (L +12) BM:

@Ghostglider said in pacifiersboard (X) vs. Ghostglider (L +12) BM:

I am certain, but I don’t know the correct place to reference.
A fast google-search find below:

https://axisallies.com/rules/axis-allies-rules-pacific1940-2nd-edition.pdf

Page 16: If a transport loads
land units during the Combat Move phase, it must offload those units to attack a hostile territory as part of an amphibious
assault during the Conduct Combat phase, or it must retreat during the sea combat step of the amphibious assault sequence
while attempting to do so.

good one. I think that this BM feature possibly is not covered by an official ruling? Only found in Game Notes:

• (PE) Transports can only be loaded in 1 phase (not both), and unloaded in 1 phase (not both).
• (PE) Transports if unloading for amphibious assault must unload all units loaded in the combat move phase and may not hold back some units while offloading other units unless the units held back were loaded in previous rounds.

@Panther @gamerman01
Is there already an answer to this Balanced Mod related rule question?

The loading of any troops on any type of ship follows the transport rules.

[gamerman01]

This seems like a good time to share my collection of notes about the Balanced Mod that I don’t think are in the BM notes in Triple A
(Not a criticism)

1. Japan can’t stop the Zone 5 NO when not at war with Russia
2. If Allies liberate South France when it’s Vichy, the fleet is destroyed but nothing else happens (unless the Free French liberate South France)
3. The French boats have to be in Zone 93 to turn Axis neutral (could happen with Vichy in later round than F1)
4. Victory conditions - the 6 or 8 cities have to be held for an entire turn, for instance, I12 to I13. If a city is taken during a full round, it “resets the clock”
5. The Russian NO for +3’s in Europe does include Finland and Norway.
6. The Axis can use the naval base in South France during Vichy
7. If Japan walks into a friendly Vichy French Indo-China they still lose the +10 NO
8. “Land units” does include AAA for purposes of stopping Vichy in South France, for gaining the Sardinia/Sicily etc. NO, for getting the North Africa NO (USA AA). But Japanese AA in China doesn’t stop the spawn

And now,
9) Battleships and cruisers are considered “transports” for marine rules, that is, marines picked up in combat move must be attempting/completing an amphibious assault in the same turn, same rule as regular transports.

There you go.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

It would be nice to add, that Subs parked in a sz containing TT’s and/or BB/CR the opposing Player must decide to either attack the Sub and can’t load and unload Land units or ignore it but must perform an amphib. Assault elsewhere to load and unload units…

[pacifiersboard]

@aequitas-et-veritas said in League General Discussion Thread:

It would be nice to add, that Subs parked in a sz containing TT’s and/or BB/CR the opposing Player must decide to either attack the Sub and can’t load and unload Land units or ignore it but must perform an amphib. Assault elsewhere to load and unload units…

Why cannot you load if you attack the sub?

"It is possible that some of your units may stop to attack while others continue moving through the sea zone.

Sea Units Starting in Hostile Sea Zones
… surface warships (not submarines and/or transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war, …" p. 13f (Europe rulebook)

[simon33]

You can only load if the transport is doing an amphibious assault, it should be. Otherwise the transport will have been in combat and can’t load on NCM.

[simon33]

Getting an error with the dice roller. Is anyone else experiencing this?

Contacting https://dice.marti.triplea-game.org
Connection failure:
javax.net.ssl.SSLHandshakeException: PKIX path building failed: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.Alert.createSSLException(Alert.java:131)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.TransportContext.fatal(TransportContext.java:350)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.TransportContext.fatal(TransportContext.java:293)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.TransportContext.fatal(TransportContext.java:288)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.CertificateMessage$T13CertificateConsumer.checkServerCerts(CertificateMessage.java:1356)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.CertificateMessage$T13CertificateConsumer.onConsumeCertificate(CertificateMessage.java:1231)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.CertificateMessage$T13CertificateConsumer.consume(CertificateMessage.java:1174)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.SSLHandshake.consume(SSLHandshake.java:392)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.HandshakeContext.dispatch(HandshakeContext.java:444)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.HandshakeContext.dispatch(HandshakeContext.java:422)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.TransportContext.dispatch(TransportContext.java:183)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.SSLTransport.decode(SSLTransport.java:171)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.decode(SSLSocketImpl.java:1408)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.readHandshakeRecord(SSLSocketImpl.java:1314)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.startHandshake(SSLSocketImpl.java:440)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.SSLSocketImpl.startHandshake(SSLSocketImpl.java:411)
at org.apache.http.conn.ssl.SSLConnectionSocketFactory.createLayeredSocket(SSLConnectionSocketFactory.java:436)
at org.apache.http.conn.ssl.SSLConnectionSocketFactory.connectSocket(SSLConnectionSocketFactory.java:384)
at org.apache.http.impl.conn.DefaultHttpClientConnectionOperator.connect(DefaultHttpClientConnectionOperator.java:142)
at org.apache.http.impl.conn.PoolingHttpClientConnectionManager.connect(PoolingHttpClientConnectionManager.java:376)
at org.apache.http.impl.execchain.MainClientExec.establishRoute(MainClientExec.java:393)
at org.apache.http.impl.execchain.MainClientExec.execute(MainClientExec.java:236)
at org.apache.http.impl.execchain.ProtocolExec.execute(ProtocolExec.java:186)
at org.apache.http.impl.execchain.RetryExec.execute(RetryExec.java:89)
at org.apache.http.impl.execchain.RedirectExec.execute(RedirectExec.java:110)
at org.apache.http.impl.client.InternalHttpClient.doExecute(InternalHttpClient.java:185)
at org.apache.http.impl.client.CloseableHttpClient.execute(CloseableHttpClient.java:118)
at games.strategy.engine.random.MartiDiceRoller.postRequest(MartiDiceRoller.java:95)
at games.strategy.engine.random.PbemDiceRoller$HttpDiceRollerDialog.rollInSeparateThread(PbemDiceRoller.java:222)
at java.base/java.lang.Thread.run(Thread.java:834)
Caused by: sun.security.validator.ValidatorException: PKIX path building failed: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target
at java.base/sun.security.validator.PKIXValidator.doBuild(PKIXValidator.java:439)
at java.base/sun.security.validator.PKIXValidator.engineValidate(PKIXValidator.java:306)
at java.base/sun.security.validator.Validator.validate(Validator.java:264)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.X509TrustManagerImpl.validate(X509TrustManagerImpl.java:313)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.X509TrustManagerImpl.checkTrusted(X509TrustManagerImpl.java:222)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.X509TrustManagerImpl.checkServerTrusted(X509TrustManagerImpl.java:129)
at java.base/sun.security.ssl.CertificateMessage$T13CertificateConsumer.checkServerCerts(CertificateMessage.java:1340)
… 25 more
Caused by: sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilderException: unable to find valid certification path to requested target
at java.base/sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilder.build(SunCertPathBuilder.java:141)
at java.base/sun.security.provider.certpath.SunCertPathBuilder.engineBuild(SunCertPathBuilder.java:126)
at java.base/java.security.cert.CertPathBuilder.build(CertPathBuilder.java:297)
at java.base/sun.security.validator.PKIXValidator.doBuild(PKIXValidator.java:434)
… 31 more

Please ensure your Internet connection is working, and try again.Visit https://forums.triplea-game.org/ for extra help

[aequitas-et-veritas]

I had also an Error but reloaded the map and it was gone.

[pacifiersboard]

@gamerman01 said in League General Discussion Thread:

This seems like a good time to share my collection of notes about the Balanced Mod that I don’t think are in the BM notes in Triple A
(Not a criticism)

1. Japan can’t stop the Zone 5 NO when not at war with Russia
2. If Allies liberate South France when it’s Vichy, the fleet is destroyed but nothing else happens (unless the Free French liberate South France)
3. The French boats have to be in Zone 93 to turn Axis neutral (could happen with Vichy in later round than F1)
4. Victory conditions - the 6 or 8 cities have to be held for an entire turn, for instance, I12 to I13. If a city is taken during a full round, it “resets the clock”
5. The Russian NO for +3’s in Europe does include Finland and Norway.
6. The Axis can use the naval base in South France during Vichy
7. If Japan walks into a friendly Vichy French Indo-China they still lose the +10 NO
8. “Land units” does include AAA for purposes of stopping Vichy in South France, for gaining the Sardinia/Sicily etc. NO, for getting the North Africa NO (USA AA). But Japanese AA in China doesn’t stop the spawn

And now,
9) Battleships and cruisers are considered “transports” for marine rules, that is, marines picked up in combat move must be attempting/completing an amphibious assault in the same turn, same rule as regular transports.

There you go.

#7 is in there:
“Japanese occupation of French Indo China still negates Japan’s “Trade With America” objective.”

[pacifiersboard]

@farmboy said in League General Discussion Thread:

@pacifiersboard as as far as I’m aware, that rule applies to marines on battleships and cruisers as well. So if you load marines on a combat move, they need to be making an amphibious assault that turn. Its why you will often see players leaving the marines on the Battleship and Cruiser rather than landing them on a NCM.

thx for pointing out what I set bold!

[gamerman01]

Since we’re on the topic -

If you have one unit on a transport, in CM you can load and drop that unit for an amphibious assault, while keeping the other onboard because it was not loaded in that CM…

[pacifiersboard]

@Adam514 @gamerman01 and all

I have been doing my homework meanwhile and also want to share (and expose) my florilegium

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

@oysteilo:
…

this means that marines can’t be loaded to warships if you want the warship to conduct only a naval battle (no amphibious assult)? However, if the warship was loaded in NCM in an earlier round the loaded warship can participate in naval battles without unloading the marine?

Exactly.

@gamerman01 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

No, it can’t because battleships and cruisers act like transports (as it relates to marines)

A transport can’t be involved in combat and then unload in NCM, so a battleship can’t either

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Rules and Download:

After much deliberation, the marine-kami rule will be the following: marines can unload from friendly cruisers/BBs and the cruisers/BBs are not subject to kamikaze attacks, nor do they stop the unloading.

Reason: should be a rare occurrence, so might as well take what TripleA does by default.

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

[…] Ships can’t conduct combat and then unload in the NCM phase. If the Marine wasn’t already loaded though, you can’t load it on a ship if you aren’t conducting combat with the Marine. That’s the same rule as transports.

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

@Misterblue Transport or ship can’t do anything else that turn if it did anything during the combat move phase (moving, bombard, battle).

Hopefully nothing outdated included.

[gamerman01]

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Rules and Download:

After much deliberation, the marine-kami rule will be the following: marines can unload from friendly cruisers/BBs and the cruisers/BBs are not subject to kamikaze attacks, nor do they stop the unloading.

Reason: should be a rare occurrence, so might as well take what TripleA does by default.

I’m not sure about this one. Is this determination regarding non-combat?

[simon33]

G-Man, if you have an ANZAC marine on a US BB, the BB can’t have been in combat on the Anzac turn so is unaffected by the rule preventing offloading after combat. Or am I not understanding your question?

[gamerman01]

No, you got it. What I didn’t understand is why “friendly” was in there. Of course marines are on friendly ships! I didn’t know it was intended to be “Ally’s” Thanks

[simon33]

More importantly, you can’t use a Kami on the US BB on Anzac’s turn if they are attacking with an Anzac marine.

[gamerman01]

Leads to another interesting scenario.

It has been ruled (Krieghund, probably) that a scramble stops an unsupported amphibious assault from an ally’s transport

Similarly, I would think a scramble would stop an unsupported marine from coming off an ally’s cruiser/battleship.

Like Adam said, much deliberation. I suppose I can imagine kamikazes would target a fleet in motion, but marines getting off an ally’s warship (warship was moved on the Ally’s turn - Krieghund gave this very logic in explaining bridging across an ally’s transport - actually depends on which coast it’s on!!) would not be stopped by kamikazes because kamikazes pretty much always targeted a fleet in motion.

:p