League General Discussion Thread

[pacifiersboard]

@farmboy said in League General Discussion Thread:

@pacifiersboard as as far as I’m aware, that rule applies to marines on battleships and cruisers as well. So if you load marines on a combat move, they need to be making an amphibious assault that turn. Its why you will often see players leaving the marines on the Battleship and Cruiser rather than landing them on a NCM.

thx for pointing out what I set bold!

[gamerman01]

Since we’re on the topic -

If you have one unit on a transport, in CM you can load and drop that unit for an amphibious assault, while keeping the other onboard because it was not loaded in that CM…

[pacifiersboard]

@Adam514 @gamerman01 and all

I have been doing my homework meanwhile and also want to share (and expose) my florilegium

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

@oysteilo:
…

this means that marines can’t be loaded to warships if you want the warship to conduct only a naval battle (no amphibious assult)? However, if the warship was loaded in NCM in an earlier round the loaded warship can participate in naval battles without unloading the marine?

Exactly.

@gamerman01 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

No, it can’t because battleships and cruisers act like transports (as it relates to marines)

A transport can’t be involved in combat and then unload in NCM, so a battleship can’t either

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Rules and Download:

After much deliberation, the marine-kami rule will be the following: marines can unload from friendly cruisers/BBs and the cruisers/BBs are not subject to kamikaze attacks, nor do they stop the unloading.

Reason: should be a rare occurrence, so might as well take what TripleA does by default.

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

[…] Ships can’t conduct combat and then unload in the NCM phase. If the Marine wasn’t already loaded though, you can’t load it on a ship if you aren’t conducting combat with the Marine. That’s the same rule as transports.

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread:

@Misterblue Transport or ship can’t do anything else that turn if it did anything during the combat move phase (moving, bombard, battle).

Hopefully nothing outdated included.

[gamerman01]

@Adam514 said in G40 Balance Mod - Rules and Download:

After much deliberation, the marine-kami rule will be the following: marines can unload from friendly cruisers/BBs and the cruisers/BBs are not subject to kamikaze attacks, nor do they stop the unloading.

Reason: should be a rare occurrence, so might as well take what TripleA does by default.

I’m not sure about this one. Is this determination regarding non-combat?

[simon33]

G-Man, if you have an ANZAC marine on a US BB, the BB can’t have been in combat on the Anzac turn so is unaffected by the rule preventing offloading after combat. Or am I not understanding your question?

[gamerman01]

No, you got it. What I didn’t understand is why “friendly” was in there. Of course marines are on friendly ships! I didn’t know it was intended to be “Ally’s” Thanks

[simon33]

More importantly, you can’t use a Kami on the US BB on Anzac’s turn if they are attacking with an Anzac marine.

[gamerman01]

Leads to another interesting scenario.

It has been ruled (Krieghund, probably) that a scramble stops an unsupported amphibious assault from an ally’s transport

Similarly, I would think a scramble would stop an unsupported marine from coming off an ally’s cruiser/battleship.

Like Adam said, much deliberation. I suppose I can imagine kamikazes would target a fleet in motion, but marines getting off an ally’s warship (warship was moved on the Ally’s turn - Krieghund gave this very logic in explaining bridging across an ally’s transport - actually depends on which coast it’s on!!) would not be stopped by kamikazes because kamikazes pretty much always targeted a fleet in motion.

:p

[mainah]

rules question:
Vichy has benne enacted. Germany holds Normandy and France.

Can Italy take Southern France with an AA gun on NCM? The BM rules state any axis occupation following armistice…

[gamerman01]

You can’t activate a neutral with AAA, per Krieghund (Kevin Chapman, actual rulebook writer)

[dawgoneit]

Good question
mainah
I never thought of that.

[mainah]

@gamerman01
Thank you gamerman.
Wasn’t sure if southern France was truly considered a friendly neutral as you don’t get the land units or the fleet when “activating” it, and you can land air there without activating it.

[pacifiersboard]

@mainah said in League General Discussion Thread:

ou can land air there without activating it

hu, you can land air there ?

[gamerman01]

My internet here has been down for awhile, I was going to double check what their notes in Triple A say but haven’t had a chance.

The balanced mod came with the Vichy rules, so that is all a house-ruled set. In other words, 2nd edition out of the box rules do not include the Vichy rules at all - the Vichy rules were created by a team of players who developed the balanced mod that is immensely popular here in the A&A.org league

Vichy territories are pro-Axis neutrals.

You can’t land air on neutrals. You can’t “activate” neutrals with only an AAA gun

So you can’t land air on South France and you can’t take it over with an AAA

[mainah]

@gamerman01
OK. Asking for a little more clarification.

Moving on from the AA gun, letting it be settled -

How are we activating a friendly neutral? The army there isn’t activated like it would be if Vichy Morrocco had an Italian inf move in. Even in the notes, its not labelled as a Vichy Territory like the others, it is called Libre Zone. The army and navy disappears. It’s more like a occupation of foreign troops, just not contested.

Would that mean we should be doing it on a CM move?

With the exception of Southern France (see discussion of “Zone Libere” below), Vichy French territory operates the same way as other Pro-Axis Neutral territory. An Axis player may capture Vichy French territory and commandeer its forces by moving a land unit into the territory during the non-combat phase of his turn. Fly-over restrictions applicable to other Neutral territories do not apply to Vichy French territory.

Fleet at Toulon: In addition to the change in French territorial control, the Armistice changes control of the the French fleet in sz 93, from French to Pro-Axis neutral. The Vichy French fleet maintains a strictly defensive posture. It may not be moved. It may not be captured by the Axis. The fleet is immediately destroyed if any power, other than the Free French, occupies Southern France

“Zone Libre”: Any Axis occupation of Southern France following the Armistice results in the scuttling of the Vichy French Fleet at Toulon and the disbandment of all remaining Vichy French forces. These forces are removed at the end of the Axis player’s turn in which the occupation of Southern France takes place. Any formerly Vichy French forces that were previously commandeered by the Axis are unaffected by this change.

Armistice’s Effect on National Objectives: Following the armistice, Southern France is considered Axis-controlled for purposes of Italy’s “Roman Empire” objective. Otherwise, the Vichy France arrangement has no impact on National Objectives. Tunisia, Algeria and Morocco must still be directly occupied by Germany or Italy to achieve Italy’s “North Africa” objective. Japanese occupation of French Indo China still negates Japan’s “Trade With America” objective. Liberation of France: The Allied liberation of France effectively terminates the Armistice. Any territory and forces still under Vichy French control (including any surviving fleet in sz 93) revert back to Free French control. The Vichy French forces in the Southern France and sz 93 will also revert back if Southern France is liberated by the Free French.

[mainah]

Please note i forgot to bold

"WITH THE EXCFEPTION OF SOUTHERN FRANCE, VICHY FRENCH territory operates the same way as other pro-axis neutrals.

[mainah]

@mainah
Notes say any axis occupation, not axis activation.

[gamerman01]

I appreciate that you copied and pasted here -

Is the matter in question about landing air on South France?

French Territorial Control: At the beginning of France’s first turn in which Armistice conditions are met, all originally French territories not already under Axis control immediately change ownership to Pro-Axis Neutrals, except: (1) French Equatorial Africa; (2) New Hebrides; (2) any French territories containing non-French allied land units.

South France is a pro-Axis neutral, you can’t land air on neutrals unless it’s already been attacked

[mainah]

@gamerman01
What about the part where it says “except for southern France (see discussion of Zone Libere below)”

As in that specific territory is named as not being affected by the pro-axis neutral change. It has its own section, where it refers to occupation, not activation. Fly overs are permitted. I get now that landing is not.

[gamerman01]

I’m glad you press until you have everything answered in your mind.

The “except for” doesn’t mean South France is not a pro-Axis neutral. The “Zone Libre” section just says the fleet sinks, remaining Vichy French forces disappear, and infantry taken over by the Axis remain with the Axis.

None of the “except for” changes any of its attributes as a pro-Axis neutral

And without making sure, I don’t believe “activation” is the correct term for taking control of neutrals in 2nd edition rules, so it may help clear up confusion to not use that term