League General Discussion Thread

[ksmckay]

@oysteilo the 2 or 3 people who prefer bm3 can certainly have their own playoff…

[TheVeteran]

@oysteilo
Does anyone really only prefer to play OOB?

[ksmckay]

sorry OOB

[dawgoneit]

BM3 is good with me

[oysteilo]

I dont have the numbers on what people prefer. Personally i will try to do more OOB game because they are faster. I am tired of the 20 + rounds BM games that run into stalemate.

[TheVeteran]

@oysteilo won’t be playing against me for OOB, sorry.

[ksmckay]

This issue popped up two years ago in the playoffs and was never properly addressed then unfortunately.

Last year there were about 20-25 games out of 375 that were played with OOB rules. Most of those games involved a small handful of players who clearly prefer OOB but were nowhere near the playoffs so it wasnt an issue last year.

This year There were 16 out of 350 or so games played with OOB rules with 11 of them played by one player and a few other random games. Thought this year is complicated because of the addition of P2V which actually represented quite a few games.

Just to put some numbers in. But for the most part I think this conversation was sidetracked.

In 2018 this issue came up in the middle of the playoffs. Thankfully it was avoided in main bracket in 2019 (though it came up in second bracket). Im trying to avoid dealing with this issue in 2020 as I know I wont be the only one who has an issue with this rule and so trying to start the conversation and deal with it before games are started. Its not a question of what the rules say, as that is clear, but the rules clearly (in my opinion of course) dont reflect the current league climate and opinions. I think the rules need to be adjusted for 2021 at minimum.

If the rest of the main bracket is fine with things as is, then all is well, if not then I think its worth discussing and dealing with ahead of time.

[simon33]

I would agree that BM3/4 should be the standard for the playoffs for this year’s games.

[oysteilo]

It is definately a problem that the rules dont reflect the majority of the games. I think it should be changed. But not sure to what.

I think most likely it has to be:

1. BM only.
2. All 3 versions, OOB, BM, PTV

[ksmckay]

@oysteilo I think the league is totally fine and nothing wrong with diversity when nobody is forced to play anyone or any game they dont want to play. So I see no real reason to change the standard league play rules as they are - though I can understand concerns that some might have - but no way to make everyone happy.

But in the playoffs, you dont get to pick your opponent and while nobody is forced to play anything (you can always withdraw), the current playoff rules will/do/have lead to conflict over the different versions.

[Colt45554]

@ksmckay Do you remember how it was resolved then or what the scenario was? Did someone refuse to play OOB and so forfeited to the player who wouldnt play BM?

[farmboy]

@Colt45554 in the playoffs, the default is oob so a player who prefers oob can insist on that. But the practice now has been BM, and it’s rare that a playoff game, especially in the top 8 is oob. So the issue is whether oob remains the default option when it is not often played here.

[farmboy]

And sorry I just realized I misread your question. I thought you thought BM was already the default.

[Colt45554]

@farmboy Thanks. Personally, I prefer OOB but I don’t imagine I’ll be in playoffs 2021 League but it will be fun to spectate! I dont think the mega bids are a bad thing. Opens up a lot of creative options.

[trulpen]

@bretters said in League General Discussion Thread:

@oysteilo
Does anyone really only prefer to play OOB?

Yes.

[Amon-Sul]

@trulpen said in League General Discussion Thread:

@bretters said in League General Discussion Thread:

@oysteilo
Does anyone really only prefer to play OOB?

Yes.

U prefer OOB over BM? Xd

[Amon-Sul]

@farmboy said in League General Discussion Thread:

@Colt45554 in the playoffs, the default is oob so a player who prefers oob can insist on that. But the practice now has been BM, and it’s rare that a playoff game, especially in the top 8 is oob. So the issue is whether oob remains the default option when it is not often played here.

And what about PTV? But that question is more for the future.

[trulpen]

@oysteilo said in League General Discussion Thread:

It is definately a problem that the rules dont reflect the majority of the games. I think it should be changed. But not sure to what.

I think most likely it has to be:

1. BM only.
2. All 3 versions, OOB, BM, PTV

Actually, the issue looks more to be whether there should be a set hierarchy, i e default. I think there is today, and that is OOB.

Imo the most proper relation would be:

1. BM3
2. OOB
3. P2V (since it’s still under construction)

This would mean that if there’s a conflict regarding version, BM3 takes precedence over OOB and P2V as the main standard of the league.

[AndrewAAGamer]

Wow - lot of comments. Skipping over the quotes themselves…

1. Surprised to hear that BM3 is so dominant. As far as I know almost no one in our gaming group has played it.
2. I am an OOB Player.
3. Everyone who plays in the League should be allowed to present their opinion. Especially since, my understanding is, there are more than just one Tier of playoffs.
4. While I like OOB over BM3, and I have detailed why before, at least BM3 and OOB are on the same map and have similar rules. PtV is frankly a completely different game with a dramatically different map and ruleset. I have no problem with people agreeing to play PtV in League games but if that is a League game why not also allow Big World 1942 or Great War or Pact of Steel as League games? Playoffs should be limited to BM3 or OOB as they are both on the same Global 1940 2nd Edition map at least.
5. I agree that League play can be more loose than any playoffs since people can choose to play against each other or not. For the playoffs I would not want to be forced to play in a game I am at a serious disadvantage at just because someone else wants to play a game they like more than another version. At the same time I would not want to force people to play a version they do not want to play. Therefore League Playoff versions should be determined ahead of time so we all know what we are getting into for the Playoffs and whether we want to participate or not.

Finally for me OOB is an official Axis and Allies game. Yes, it requires a bid but it is still the official version. BM3 and PtV are not official and playing them instead of OOB fractures the gaming community. I guess a question could be what is the point of the League and this website. To promote any wargaming or promote Axis and Allies wargaming?

[ksmckay]

@AndrewAAGamer

Finally for me OOB is an official Axis and Allies game. Yes, it requires a bid but it is still the official version. BM3 and PtV are not official and playing them instead of OOB fractures the gaming community. I guess a question could be what is the point of the League and this website. To promote any wargaming or promote Axis and Allies wargaming?

Games evolve over time, in part due to sites like this. What you call OOB doesn’t match the game out of the
Box unless you have second edition so clearly AA games can evolve. Probably Larry and company should have done more to continue to evolve the game but they are a business and continuing to support a game well after being released is probably challenging (though at some other they still support it).

I think most of us play the game for fun. Obviously that means different things for different people.