Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

[AndrewAAGamer]

Thanks for setting up the thread and volunteering your time to be the “evil training opponent”. So I am still wondering how best to do this Tutor game. We definitely want to have a big gap between Turns so others who are interested have time to chime in. I am wondering if I should provide comments before any given Turn or after? I am thinking waiting to the end of the game for an overall critique is not useful since that would require everyone to go back and see what the heck I was talking about.

My initial thoughts are one of these three ways to proceed:
Option #1: (Advice After)

• Let everyone chime in and discuss what the chosen move should be
• trulpen chooses one of those options and takes the Turn
• I provide my comments/critique of the move chosen
• I provide the move I would have made and why (May be the same one chosen)
  Option #2: (Advice Before)
• Let everyone chime in and discuss what the chosen move should be
• I provide the pros and cons of each of them or at least the top 3-4 suggested options
• trulpen chooses one of those options and takes the Turn
• I provide the move I would have made and why (May be the same one chosen)
  Option #3: (Playing Myself)
• Let everyone chime in and discuss what the chosen move should be
• I provide the pros and cons of each of the suggested options
• I provide the move I would make and why
• trulpen chooses one of those options and takes the Turn

Option 1 provides a more realistic “World versus Andrew” game feeling. Since I am not providing any input until after the choice is made the game is actually more competitive from a me vs you perspective and learning is done after the moves are made which is still valuable; maybe more so. If I lose this gives the winners a real sense of victory since they figured it out themselves learning as they go. I think this might be the best choice to garner the most interest from others and frankly would be the most fun for me. Since we plan on doing more of these in the future the World should get better over time.

Option 2 is more a learning game than Option 1. Since I am helping the “World” before any choices are made any ultimate victory would not have the same competitive appeal as doing it on their own. However hearing the pros and cons of each move up front and then being able to debate that amongst themselves makes it more of an immediate learning game than option 1 and over the entire game should make that individual game closer.

Option 3 is basically almost playing myself so I only mention it as a “Here is how I would do it” scenario though I think that would be more boring for everyone. I am willing to do it that way if that is what the majority of people want to do.

Personally I like Option 1 the best followed by Option 2.

[trulpen]

I prefer option 1 and believe that’s the most rewarding choice.

[AndrewAAGamer]

A few more items:

• As I mentioned in our chat I am going to post some Principles of Axis and Allies Advice hopefully over the 3 day weekend. That should help the “World” so we should wait to begin after that.
• We need to figure out how to promote this game so others who might be interested can join in.
• Since the World is playing this game you should get options for the bid placement from them before we begin.
  .

[AndrewAAGamer]

Okay good. We both like Option 1 the best so lets do that one!

[trulpen]

@AndrewAAGamer said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

A few more items:

• As I mentioned in our chat I am going to post some Principles of Axis and Allies Advice hopefully over the 3 day weekend. That should help the “World” so we should wait to begin after that.
• We need to figure out how to promote this game so others who might be interested can join in.
• Since the World is playing this game you should get options for the bid placement from them before we begin.

Sounds great!

Maybe put out some notices here and there?

[AndrewAAGamer]

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Maybe put out some notices here and there?

That is my idea but being new I am not sure where to place them. I would not want to break any protocol. I am also wondering where I should post my Principles of Axis and Allies Advice.

[Midnight_Reaper]

@AndrewAAGamer said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

That is my idea but being new I am not sure where to place them. I would not want to break any protocol. I am also wondering where I should post my Principles of Axis and Allies Advice.

I would post your Principles article in the A&A Global 1940 forum and then post a link to those principles here.

-Midnight_Reaper

[AndrewAAGamer]

@Midnight_Reaper said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

I would post your Principles article in the A&A Global 1940 forum and then post a link to those principles here.

Thanks for the advice! @Midnight_Reaper

[oysteilo]

for a 50 bid. I would take:

British
Scotland: 1 fighter
Sz 110, 91 and 98: 1 sub each
sz 71: 1 transport
Egypt: 1 infantry

China
Yunnan: 1 inf

Anzac
sz 62: 1 sub
New Guinea: 1 inf

The China and sz 62 bid is to discourage a J1 attack. J1 attack is extremely powerful when playing OOB version

[trulpen]

@oysteilo said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

for a 50 bid. I would take:

British
Scotland: 1 fighter
Sz 110, 91 and 98: 1 sub each
sz 71: 1 transport
Egypt: 1 infantry

China
Yunnan: 1 inf

Anzac
sz 62: 1 sub
New Guinea: 1 inf

The China and sz 62 bid is to discourage a J1 attack. J1 attack is extremely powerful when playing OOB version

That’s a great bid. Suspect however that the inf in NG will not be accepted.

[oysteilo]

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@oysteilo said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

for a 50 bid. I would take:

British
Scotland: 1 fighter
Sz 110, 91 and 98: 1 sub each
sz 71: 1 transport
Egypt: 1 infantry

China
Yunnan: 1 inf

Anzac
sz 62: 1 sub
New Guinea: 1 inf

The China and sz 62 bid is to discourage a J1 attack. J1 attack is extremely powerful when playing OOB version

That’s a great bid. Suspect however that the inf in NG will not be accepted.

all right, then an inf in alexandria or so.

Some might think 3 subs are too much. I think it is a strong bid, because in sz 110 you can choose to have the sub fight or not, combined with a possible 3 fighter scramble and a scotland scramble it becomes “impossible” for Germany to kill both 110 and 111

But most likely the sub in 110 is not going to fight. Now, you are in great shape if you want to do taranto raid, but if you want to stack 92 you also put great pressure on Italy with your 3 subs and everything else you might put there. So the sub bid is both defensive (110 and 91) but also highly offensive!

[AndrewAAGamer]

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Suspect however that the inf in NG will not be accepted.

Since it was not discussed and the default rules do not allow it you are correct. If you want to make it a $45 bid instead of $50 than I will allow it.

[trulpen]

@oysteilo said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@oysteilo said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

for a 50 bid. I would take:

British
Scotland: 1 fighter
Sz 110, 91 and 98: 1 sub each
sz 71: 1 transport
Egypt: 1 infantry

China
Yunnan: 1 inf

Anzac
sz 62: 1 sub
New Guinea: 1 inf

The China and sz 62 bid is to discourage a J1 attack. J1 attack is extremely powerful when playing OOB version

That’s a great bid. Suspect however that the inf in NG will not be accepted.

all right, then an inf in alexandria or so.

Some might think 3 subs are too much. I think it is a strong bid, because in sz 110 you can choose to have the sub fight or not, combined with a possible 3 fighter scramble and a scotland scramble it becomes “impossible” for Germany to kill both 110 and 111

But most likely the sub in 110 is not going to fight. Now, you are in great shape if you want to do taranto raid, but if you want to stack 92 you also put great pressure on Italy with your 3 subs and everything else you might put there. So the sub bid is both defensive (110 and 91) but also highly offensive!

I agree. Anyone else might however put in the 2 IPC as well. :)

[oysteilo]

I just think it is important to discuss why you suggest what bid where and discuss it a little bit if this is going to be a tutor game!

[trulpen]

@oysteilo said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

I just think it is important to discuss why you suggest what bid where and discuss it a little bit if this is going to be a tutor game!

Definitely! I highly appreciate your input. I just gave that comment since your suggestion was high quality solid.

[AndrewAAGamer]

Agreed! We want as many people who are interested in being the World to comment on the Bid. Once the Bid is agreed on then I will comment on it. Nothing from me now though. :)

[farmboy]

I like Oysteilo’s choices except I would hesitate on the sub in 110, the inf in Yunnan, and the transport in 71.

Yunnan increases the chances for a Yunnan disaster for Japan, but Japan is almost always going to go for it and the most likely outcome is just China losing one more inf.

The transport is probably only useful if you are fairly sure you are going to hit the Italians first in Ethiopia. But I think they often have other priorities that would demand the other units needed.I suppose it can go to Persia to allow the India transport to go to the islands, but I think the islands are often a mistake on UK1.

The sub in 110 is useful because the naval base gives it range but it doesn’t add much to the defense since the German attack there is mostly air and because that is the one spot the Germans are definitely going to hit. 106 may be more useful for defense since it likely blocks that attack or forces the Germans to send 3 subs (in which case the sub can submerge and join the counter)

UK Europe is almost always the best bet for the bulk of the bid since that is the one ally that is certain to be at war in round 1, (so I agree with Oysteilo’s emphasis on that) but I might still consider adding to the pacific. More UK inf in the pacific, or a second ANZAC sub, or Art for China.

Also, the sub in 91 is for me a must, as it discourages an attack on that cruiser (which is an option for Germany if they ignore 111 or 106) and it threatens everywhere the German navy ends up plus the Italian destroyer in 96.

But I haven’t really played much OOB for a while (and never had a chance to play with a 50 bid) so I might be misjudging and identifying things that are more appropriate for BM.

[trulpen]

Thank you for your input, @farmboy! It adds some nuiscances to the choice.

I think I will wait a while before putting together my thoughts and suggestion of a bid. Then wait a bit more for critique, to finally settle it with a decision and then Andrew may comment.

[majikforce]

@trulpen
British
Scotland: 1 fighter – I would definitely do this
Sz 110, 91 and 98: 1 sub each --I would maybe add a sub or dd to 106 instead of 110
sz 71: 1 transport --Could be useful depending on what UK wants to do UK1
Egypt: 1 infantry --I would only do ground troops a mech or tank here if you were committing to Tobruk UK1 and then you would want to add in Alexandria as well

China
Yunnan: 1 inf --Seems like it would make it tougher for Japan but in the end you probably lose the inf anyway.

Anzac
sz 62: 1 sub --Interesting to help thwart a J1 could be useful.
New Guinea: 1 inf-- I don’t allow this bid placement due to the league rules. Plus it is attached to NO and doesn’t seem very fair.

I agree that most of the bid should go to the UK on the Europe side. It has the most impact there and can change the landscape of a mostly scripted G1. Anything to help throw off G1.
The thought should be to get the most bang for your buck. That means being able to use the units when it comes your turn. So keep the bid units safe, maybe 106 is the exception. I have been messing around with a fighter or tac in malta and a strat in egypt. Assuming Tarnato is on the table UK1. It may help keep London with fighters for a possible sea lion and still be able to overcome the possible scramble in 97. Plus you don’t have to leave the carrier in 97 to get cleaned up by the Luftwaffe. Just my thoughts. This seems like a really cool and refreshing idea. Hope it goes well. Can’t wait to follow along!

[surfer]

Hey this sounds like fun, so I’ll send in my $0.02–might be worth that much…
IMHO, the primary purpose of the bid is to protect Allied units that are initially placed precariously. – prototypical example British Fleet. And to reduce the German Luftwaffe so that the Battle of Moscow can’t happen G5-6 timeframe.

So ftr in scotland and something in SZ110 because we can’t usefully add another ftr. @oysteilo added a sub, but for 2 more IPCs I’d upgrade to a DD-especially since there was some debate what to do with them anyway. The Germans can still “win” both battles, but the vaunted Luftwaffe will lose more planes than the Brits. Planes that won’t help in the Battle of Moscow. So 18 IPCs spent.

I really like the @oysteilo 's choice of 2 subs in SZ 91 and 98 for all the reasons given (+12 IPCs = 30 so far)

The remaining bid points have more pro’s and cons. For me the debate is Middle East and Yunnan. I’m a real fan of the Middle Earth strategy and so additional units in and around Egypt prevents the Italians from growing and makes developing Iraq and Persia easier. That said I think the transport in SZ71 is excellent purchase. The shuttle of troops from S. Africa along with an artillery in Anglo-Egyptian Sudan allow a quick takedown of Ethiopia to further reduce the Italians. The transport will then support further shucks of troops from S. Africa, keeping Egypt secure. +11 IPC = 41

Now I have 9 IPCs left. In the OOB game, Yunnan is huge with +6 IPC bonus. However, it can’t be held against determined Japanese aggression. That doesn’t matter. By placing one more inf there as @oysteilo says, it reduces the likelihood of a J1 DOW. The bombers are used against Yunnan and not the Brit BB, Phillippines SZ, Pearl Harbor, or whatever on J1.

The J1 DD attack on SZ62 is probably my most hated move in the game–similar to the German attack with single sub on SZ106, but here seems more debilitating. Total coin flip–actually 40-60 against because the prize is the transport. If the Japanese pull it off, they delay ANZAC development. A draw is useless. For that reason I might agree with @oysteilo. Alternatively, the remaining 6 IPCs could be split between Egypt and India–or even Russia for that matter. But that would be just putting a pieces on the board without much purpose. I guess I would go with the sub placement, but not firm.