Well put. Although I think you mean Norway rather than Sweden.
Appreciate some of your comments on the game.
Axis Victories (what's the "magic" trick?)
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It’s all about your goal. If you want to try to take moscow on G5, you need fast movers on g1 and g2. Planes on g3 and bombers g4. You can’t worry about what uk is doing. If you want g6 moscow you add the art on g1, otherwise the same.
I dont think you should focus on landing bombers in eastern poland in order to hit moscow, because you dont have fighter escorts. Basically it is your bombers, more than 3 is silly, against his fighters. Remember it is not unlikely to have only one bomber left after intercept and AA guns. That sucks. The risk is too big
Also, dont get distracted, head straight for moscow.
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Also, dont get distracted, head straight for moscow.
That’s the real secret to Axis victory – focus on the objective and don’t give up the initiative to the Allies. That doesn’t mean that you don’t respond to the Allies, but it does mean that you keep your eyes on the prize while making sure the Allies can’t wreck your day!
Marsh
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Re Germany Sea Lion if Brit doesn’t build defensively on B1. In a game earlier this year, G1 built ground troops, so I as Brit, built no ground units in London, instead built in S. Afr and dd in Canada and sub off London. So G2 built tt’s and bombed London. Brit AA rolled snake eyes, killing both Ger bombers. That allowed me to build inf without spending on repairs and Ger had no bombers for Sea Lion. He attacked anyway and rolled until he lost everything and conceded the game on G3. But I don’t tempt fate like that anymore. Pure luck of the dice.
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I’ve found that the game is Japans to lose and must be played that way. Japan can opt to not make a DOW against anyone but china and get calcutta and kwantung consistantly by T3, and if you wait for T4 you can have the philipines as well, which puts you only one VC away from winning. The USA must put a lot of IPCs towards stopping this, and by doing so, allows the Germans and the I-Ties a pretty good reign over europe and can slug their way to moscow. My group views getting Italy’s income into the 30’s by the time the US is coming over for the Axis to be in strong position, and i view turns 7-9 as the turns that the Allies need to be turning the corner in IPC and unit advantage. Just my thoughts. Good Luck!
AW
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I’ve found that the game is Japans to lose and must be played that way. Japan can opt to not make a DOW against anyone but china and get calcutta and kwantung consistantly by T3, and if you wait for T4 you can have the philipines as well, which puts you only one VC away from winning. The USA must put a lot of IPCs towards stopping this, and by doing so, allows the Germans and the I-Ties a pretty good reign over europe and can slug their way to moscow. My group views getting Italy’s income into the 30’s by the time the US is coming over for the Axis to be in strong position, and i view turns 7-9 as the turns that the Allies need to be turning the corner in IPC and unit advantage. Just my thoughts. Good Luck!
AW
Hold on, are you saying that Japan not doing a DOW until turn 3 then results in Calcutta’s capitulation on the same turn as the DOW?
How? Wouldn’t the UK put down a blocker in SZ37?
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I’ve found that the game is Japans to lose and must be played that way. Japan can opt to not make a DOW against anyone but china and get calcutta and kwantung consistantly by T3, and if you wait for T4 you can have the philipines as well, which puts you only one VC away from winning. The USA must put a lot of IPCs towards stopping this, and by doing so, allows the Germans and the I-Ties a pretty good reign over europe and can slug their way to moscow. My group views getting Italy’s income into the 30’s by the time the US is coming over for the Axis to be in strong position, and i view turns 7-9 as the turns that the Allies need to be turning the corner in IPC and unit advantage. Just my thoughts. Good Luck!
AW
Hold on, are you saying that Japan not doing a DOW until turn 3 then results in Calcutta’s capitulation on the same turn as the DOW?
How? Wouldn’t the UK put down a blocker in SZ37?
As long as you are not at war the UK is not able to block the Japanese fleet, meaning you can have your entire fleet near/in front of Calcutta before declaring war and invading on that same turn.
However I feel it is unlikely that you can take Calcutta with just the troops and fleet that are able to reach without any land-based air support.In a recent game I went for a Calcutta crush, where I was able to capture it on J3. However that required a J1 DOW to clear at least the BB in SZ37. On J2: Defeating most of the UK pacific fleet, capturing Malaya, capturing shan state, plus taking out the forces in Burma with my airforce (so a counter on shan state was impossible) and building an airbase in FIC for the planes to reach Calcutta and a naval base in Hainan.
J3 all available aircrafts + 6 loaded transports to attack Calcutta. If the UK build their defenced right, you will likely have to offer up some planes to take Calcutta and if they are able to take Shan State back in UK2, it will delay the landing on Calcutta by a turn (in which Japan lands on a number of the money islands
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@Quirky:
However I feel it is unlikely that you can take Calcutta with just the troops and fleet that are able to reach without any land-based air support.
My exact point.
To prevent blockers, Japan has to put fleets in two SZs. It can’t do any blockers if it isn’t at war - UK would be able to put a DD in SZ37 which would stop the transports coming from SZ36. If Japan takes FIC, they can at least get the CVs to do double duty - catch land based planes and launch planes to land on FIC.
Yeah, it is theoretically and actually possible to get Calcutta J3 with a J1 DOW but UK should be able to prevent it if they don’t make a misstep. Perhaps that just delays to J4 and only 0-3 inf built.
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With my group, the UK is loathe to DOW on japan until after J3. T1 with the japs i like to get a naval base on kwangsi. You can get 3TT and your carriers with planes on SZ36. T2 you can get all that to calcutta if no teams are at war. If your carriers are sitting off of calcutta (with other navy, not just carriers and TTs) in SZ39 and you have 6 planes on kwangsi, 6 planes on carriers, and your 2 SBs are located correctly, you can, on J3, lay siege to calcutta with 14 planes (various types) and 4-6 ground units. If you don’t mind taking planes as soaks, it is almost overwhelming bc the calcutta doesn’t have enough income to match their buy with your planes firepower. And if you are already in SZ39, they can’t effectively attack you, they don’t have the firepower. And if calcutta makes a very early DOW, they lose their US shield advantage and Japan has overwhelming superiority to mop them up and get island money almost unopposed. And i i take Calcutta on T3, i get their income, and an addition 3 for holding it, and 5 for NO. So even though i didn’t get island money, i still go up at least 25 for the turn even if calcutta takes no islands. Then, with Calcutta having a naval base, i’m in perfect position to crack back for the islands, and use calcutta as my MC instead of buying one. This assumes that he doesn’t just hole up all available units in calcutta, but if they do, then that means japan holds Yunnan and can use its buys to get all 20 some odd planes to calcutta.
AW
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Hmm, so presumably UK will activate Sumatra UK1, ANZAC will activate Java A1.
If ANZAC puts all 3 planes on Java do you then DOW J2 and hit that?
My calc is that this attack will not succeed with a maximum defence unless land based planes can be brought in, even without the ANZAC fighters, and ANZAC plane reinforcements make it 42% even then. ANZAC troops would make it even less.
I think the naval base J1 kind of tips the hand as to what you are thinking. However, I can see that this attack can work quite often. There’s a few moving parts to perfect allied defence against it and it may not all happen. Presumably Japan will still buy a TT J1 and that needs to be blocked out, for example.
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If the planes land on java, ANZAC and UK can screen that invasion
The naval base does tip your hand
If UK blocks you, you can still pass at peace and ignore him
a good way to bungle this plan is to infiltrate the UK DD into his transport fleet, then declare war with ANZAC (he cannot load, or pass through you, and you get bonuses)Based on the full committ to demolish calcutta, this is the most opportune moment for USA 100%KJF to threaten to clear/stand off SZ 6 as the Japanese cannot use all of their air, 2 carriers, all their transports and bombardment ships AND defend SZ6. They are either forced to cancel the invasion or lose control of their interior lines, and if they dont have the naval base, they cannot return home in time. Not necessarily saying that the US should put all their surface ships in SZ 6 because of potential kami and carrier buys, but they can threaten it, unblockably, if so much of the IJN is down south.
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@simon33: can you give me a projected total for what you are saying for calcutta J3? I often fly my planes from ANZAC to calcutta, as well, and still can’t hold it! Also, can i assume you will vacate all other available units leaving connecting land territories vacant? If so, is it fair to assume i should be able to hold Yunnan at the beginning of J3? Also, on J1 a transport is purchased as well as you assumed.
Additionally, i understand the UK destroyer then declaring war with ANZAC to foil loading, and that the naval base may be ‘tipping my hand’, but to me its more than that. If the UK/ANZAC DOWs that early, thats a win for me as japan, if i force UK/ANZAC to pile everything and sit (then i go for islands/kwantung/malaya), i’m ok with that, the naval base makes a very convenient one turn back to japan, or one turn to calcutta, or one turn to the carolines, or one turn to western australia. From a logistics stand point, it allows me to go a lot of places, and pushes the allies to maybe do something different. And if i can keep the US off the germans back, then my ‘friends’ in europe should be able to do what they need to do…
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Ok, I’m assuming:
No additional transports for Japan can reach due to blockers.
DD blocks bombard.
Sumatra activated UK1 but units return to India UK2
West India inf still activates Eastern Persia.
Every other land and air unit goes to India.
5inf bought UK1, 7inf bought UK2Totals for 42%:
Attackers 3inf 2art 1arm 11ftr 8tac 2sb
Defenders 20inf 1art 5ftr 1tac 3AA gunHave I miscalculated somewhere? In fact, if Sumatra is activated with 2inf from Malaya and they still return, that adds to the defence.
Regarding the ability of Japan to hold Yunnan, doesn’t that require an all air attack on Szechwan J2? If they do that, they’ll lose planes for the assault on India. Have you considered using Soviet planes and perhaps troops to support that territory? I suppose if the entire air force is there, that option won’t work. You can still attack Yunnan USSR3 with mobile troops + planes if you definitely want to save the Chinese troops by running them up to Shensi as some like to do.
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Help me out, i’m not sure how the 2 fighters on new zealend get to india J3 unless the UK takes java T1. i’m not use to having all ANZAC fighters unitl ANZAC3.
Additionally, if there is a complete turtle in calcutta, it just opens up a lot of free options for the Japanes, again, a win for japan in my book (the lack of chance of losing if my opponent likes to roll 1s and 2s with his small forces).
Is a calcutta turtle a standard move in this group?
Let me know about the fighter thing, i feel like i’m missing something obvious. If you pull out the 2 fighters the math gets a lot better. And, even though you lose a lot of planes, in this scenario, there is literally nothing left on the board in southeast asia and the islands, and australia isn’t looking much better (of course KJF with no planes is problematic)
In general, no, i have not thought of sending USSR planes to calcutta, mostly because the germans are rolling in hard! -
Dutch are allies. You don’t need to convert these territories to uk or Anzac control to land fighters on them. The fighters can be landed the same turn as the troops.
No one really does a Calcutta or bust move in the league to my knowledge.
The Japanese still have options if they have to give up on this j3 attack but they’re still lost a lot of initiative.
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If Japan offers most of its fighters on Calcutta, the US will have a field day since the easiest way for Japan to compete with the US in the fleet war is by dumping a carrier in the water and putting landbased planes on it. So every downed plane works in favour of the US.
The US/ANZAC have to hold the Sydney-Hawaii-San Fransisco line in order to prevent Japan from winning on that side of the board, so a capture of Calcutta is not necessarily the end of the game. Capturing any of the other 3 is way harder for Japan to do since the supply lines from Japan to these places are longer than the US supply lines (or can be blocked easily).
Japan still has to deal with the Chinese as well because if they disregard them too long they are in jeopardy of loosing Hong Kong/Shanghai which sets them back a VC.In the end the Allies will have to hold of Japan for long enough to either invade on the European side or in you go for a KJF you’ve destroyed the navy of Japan and you are beating them down economically.
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@Quirky:
If Japan offers most of its fighters on Calcutta, the US will have a field day since the easiest way for Japan to compete with the US in the fleet war is by dumping a carrier in the water and putting landbased planes on it. So every downed plane works in favour of the US.
Off course every destroyed unit in any way helps the allies, but you can definitely lose half your planes to still have a strong force against US. Out of your 21 starting planes you might end up with 10 planes meaning you can still operate 5 loaded carriers. The more the better as you ideally want to position a few planes against China.
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In general, no, i have not thought of sending USSR planes to calcutta, mostly because the germans are rolling in hard!
That usually is a few turns later, or do you see a lot of G1 DOWs?
I’ve been thinking about the consequences of a J2 DOW to hit planes on Java, and I would say that you should still get on India J3 providing there isn’t a blocker. The critical thing for Japan is that they can hold either Shan State or Yunnan. Running some numbers, if 3 inf are killed taking Java, which is probably reasonable, it’s 66% at the cost of 18.45 planes on average. -90 TUV. Adding bombards and assuming only 2 inf are killed attacking Java makes it 89% -50TUV. Is that a Pyrrhic victory?
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I think a -50 TUV swing is probably acceptable losses for Japan. You loot about 10 IPCs if you sack India on turn 3, and you collect 3 IPCs for the territory plus 5 IPCs for the NO each turn, and you also deny the Allies about 6 IPCs per turn in ongoing income. Sure, you can lower UK Pacific income below 6 IPCs with subs, bombing, etc., but actually conquering India frees up those subs and bombers for other campaigns, so I think it’s still fair to count the UK Pacific income at 6 IPCs.
So you’re looking at a 10 + 8 + 6 = 24 IPC swing on turn 3, followed by an 8 + 6 = 14 IPC swing on turn 4, and another 14 IPCs on turn 5, meaning you’ve essentially broken even by turn 5. It’s not literally the best economic investment Japan could make, but it gets you a victory city and denies the Allies a lot of strategic options and puts pressure on the Middle East / Stalingrad region and consolidates your rear so you can focus on confronting USA / ANZAC without any naval threats to your west. It’s a good deal for Japan if you can get India for only 50 IPCs of net TUV loss.
I think a -90 TUV swing is probably cost prohibitive – at that point you’re likely to have so few planes left that America can get the jump on you, force you out of the Philippines and the money islands, and send you into a death spiral. Theoretically you would eventually pay off your investment if you continue to hold India, but in practice you will lose so much ground to America that the net swing will be in America’s favor, not in your favor. E.g. if America takes just Borneo and the Philippines from you, that’s a swing of 4 + 4 + 2 + 5 = 15 IPCs (or more if that costs you the money island NO), so you’re already net negative trading Borneo + Philippines for India. If you can take and hold West India and Shan State too that makes it 15 IPCs vs. 17 IPCs, so technically you’re up 2 IPCs…but it will take you forever to pay off a 90 IPC investment at 2 IPCs per turn. That’s not a good deal.
I’m unclear on how/why you lose 3 infantry attacking Java – what’s on Java besides 3 ANZAC fighters? Are you assuming all 3 of the fighters score a hit?
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Losing 14-19 fighters to capture India on J3 is not worth it IMHO. You haven’t subtracted the lost income of not controlling the money islands, along with loss of Mainland Asia from combined China+ Russia assault. You aren’t going to hold China + Money Islands after such a huge loss. Perhaps it is a good plan if going against a much better opponent and you are praying to the dice gods.
If I were doing a India or bust stray, I would capture it on J4 and then abandon victory in Asia to focus on Europe. The Japanese fleet would swing around to the Middle East and Asia.
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I agree with both posters. So the conclusion from that is that putting the 3 ANZAC fighters +2inf on Java A1 with a max turtle is an effective block to the J3 DOW version of this strategy. In that strategy, you have to assume that bombards are able to be blocked and troops can also return from the islands.
I’m unclear on how/why you lose 3 infantry attacking Java – what’s on Java besides 3 ANZAC fighters? Are you assuming all 3 of the fighters score a hit?
The 2 inf I’m putting on Java A1 should hit 0.67 inf in the first round and can pretty easily force a second round especially if there isn’t a bombard. Battle calc: https://goo.gl/hrKKcc
You could also take Java as UK with 2inf from Malaya and then reinforce with 1inf 1AA Gun + the 3ftr as ANZAC. This may be optimal, I’m not completely sure.
Optimal UK1 buy in this case would be 3inf 2mech which defend the same as 5inf but can retake either Shan State or Yunnan.
I would discount the possibility of a round 1 allied DOW on Japan with such positioning by Japan.
Next question is if the allies do this block, can Japan change up to a J2 DOW strategy which will be as good? With only 1TT in SZ6, it probably needs to bypass The Philippines. You may bypass attacking Sumatra as Japan because you’re only going to get the money as plunder and better to concentrate your attacks. So let’s say that you can still attack India J3 with 2inf 3art 1arm from 4TTs but you can probably have bombards if you can block SZ39 and SZ41 as well as SZ42.
Interestingly, such a battle seems to work out for Japan, with a -35TUV from attacking India and 91% chance of taking the territory: https://goo.gl/i66VFU . Given that you’ve also have a +22 TUV from hitting Java the investment would be paid off quickly if the dice come out average.
Do you still need the naval base for that plan? I would say so. Without the naval base, UK can use its Cruiser and DD to block SZ37 (Malaya) and SZ43 (Borneo) and prevent the attack on Java.
In fact, even with the naval base, UK can use all 3 of its ships as blockers including SZ44 (Celebes) to prevent an attack on Java. Should they? I think so but only if Japan can bring in its land based planes J3, which UK doesn’t know UK1. If USSR are staying home and not helping China, I think you have to assume that Japan will get a landing field. They can use an all air attack on Szechwan and/or Kweichow J2 to prevent the Chinese from recapturing Yunnan. USSR can use its mobile troops from Sikang to retake Yunnan and UK can use some mechs to retake Shan State, providing that Burma is still UK owned.
One thing Japan might do J1 is move the SZ6 TT to SZ33 (Carolines). That makes it too hard to block out from Java but then Japan wouldn’t be able to take Java without losing planes or good dice.
I think I’ve just explained the nearly perfect block to the Calcutta or bust strategy. Is it costly? Absolutely, given that you’ll lose the UK BB. It’s also costly for Japan given that they’ll lose a lot of their ground units and not have many reinforcements for a long time.
I would wonder about getting on India J4 after such a move. Technically, only 3IPC of Calcutta income is not able to be convoyed off so if the stars align you may only have to fight one more infantry on a J4 assault. I would suppose you would hit The Philippines J2 in that scenario which then threatens SZ54 given that you’ve taken out the ANZAC planes.
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