Global War 1940 2nd ed.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Looking at this some more the Cruiser will be a pretty strong ship due to being able to take 2 hits on a plane and a ship. Its like a 2 hit ship for damage now. The BB can get 4 hits before its sunk. Did you consider those numbers ?
How these look if we figure out a new numbers table for 2 AD dice ships ?
CR A3 pl A3 ship
BB A4 pl A4 ship Damaged A3 pl A3 ship

Maybe with the CR A4 A4 BB A4 A5 may not work with plane C10 ?
I can see planes Costing 8 or 9. At least Naval Figs and Dive Bombers.

Still will try it games. Just got to come up with a value that we are all OK with for starters.

For your info.
To get different odds for 4 cases:
Cruiser @3/12 vs aircraft, @3/12 vs other unit
2 hits: @3 * @3 = 9 out 144 or 0.75/12 or 6.25% * 16 IPCs = 1 IPC
1 aircraft hit: @3 vs @9 = 27 out of 144 or 2.25/12 or 18.75% * 10 IPC = 1.875 IPCs
1 regular hit: @9 vs @3 = 27 out of 144 or 2.25/12 or 18.75% * 6 IPC = 1.125 IPCs
0 hit: @9 vs @9 = 81 out of 144 or 6.75/12 or 56.25%
SUM: 4.00 IPCs

Compared to Cruiser Cost 10, @7, odds:
1 regular hit only, odds are 7/12 * 10 IPCs = 5.83 IPCs
1 regular hit only, odds are 7/12 * 6 IPCs = 3.50 IPCs
No casualty at all: 5/12 * 10 IPCs = 0.00
Average: 4.665 IPCs

Battleship @3/12 vs aircraft, @5/12 vs other unit
2 hits: @3 * @5 = 15 out 144 or 1.25/12 or 10.42% * 16 IPCs = 1.667 IPC
1 aircraft hit: @3 vs @7 = 21 out of 144 or 1.75/12 or 14.58% * 10 IPC = 1.458 IPCs
1 regular hit: @9 vs @5 = 45 out of 144 or 3.75/12 or 31.25% * 6 IPC = 1.875 IPCs
0 hit: @9 vs @7 = 63 out of 144 or 5.25/12 or 43.75%
SUM: 5.00 IPCs

Compared to Battleship Cost 15, @9, odds:
1 regular hit only, odds are 9/12 * 10 IPCs = 7.50 IPCs
1 regular hit only, odds are 9/12 * 6 IPCs = 4.50 IPCs
No casualty at all: 3/12 * 10 IPCs = 0.00
Average: 6.00 IPCs

Thanks a ton Baron for the numbers. Yes I’m aware odds don’t double.
CR A7 = 7/12 or 58%
CR A3 plane A4 ship = A3/12 25% A4/12 33% =
58%
Main number looking for was the 2 hit odds which you said like 8.8%
So not to get guys confused will stick with aa@3
CR C10 A3 plane A4 ship
BB C15 A3 plane A6 ship
BB dam A3 plane A3 ship
Now the question is if there’s no planes in a battle CR only gets 1 A4 for ship ?
BB only gets 1 A6 for ship ?

I can’t see the CR and BB getting a die hit for plane and getting 2 hits on a ship. AA pointing at sky.
Plus the two ships get an extra 8.8% odds on 2 hits plus any dice gods being mean so that ain’t bad difference drop to just getting hits on ships at A4 and A6 with no planes in battle.

@SS-GEN

Keeping a low @3 vs aircraft, allows to keep an higher regular combat value for the big guns of Cruisers and Battleships. It is playable.
However, this might imply sometimes, the reverse.
If only attacking are aircraft, can you defend your Cruiser or Battleships with other big guns rolls.
IMO, in that case, I would use both dice against aircraft only.

So AA roll is true AA gun but warships gun turrets can still blasts into the air.

Ok. Only planes attacking both ships get to roll 2 dice.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ok. Only planes attacking both ships get to roll 2 dice.

But, what is the defense values of Carriers?
If only having AA rolls, and zero dice vs ships?

Maybe to keep a similar @3, you might need to lower down a bit the Carrier cost, to 12 IPCs?

Or are you going to make the special “4” defense for both Fighter and Carrier on defense?

Ok. Wait a min. Are these CR BB two dice rolls against my planes being lowered in cost and A and D. Because my figs don’t defend at 4 it’s 7

Or are you saying figs D4 in Dog fights ?

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Or are you saying figs D4 in Dog fights ?

Until you make your mind about all of these changes, this is enough that Fighter dogfight work D@4.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ok. Wait a min. Are these CR BB two dice rolls against my planes being lowered in cost and A and D. Because my figs don’t defend at 4 it’s 7

I worked under the assumption that basic Naval Fighter were at Cost 10, and other values according to this, not lowered cost adjustment for aircraft.

Ok. Then just one last thing
What are you referring too with figsD@4 ?

A naval fig D@4 only in a Dog Fight ?

OK keep in mind only some nations modified their cruisers as AA gun platforms. USA and to a lessor extent Japan utilized this capability. The elite ships of the German Navy also had this. Otherwise, the Cruiser was a protector for Carriers or long range “hunter”

If your keeping D6, im not in favor of multiple dice. D12 is a much better system for this.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ok. Then just one last thing
What are you referring too with figsD@4 ?

A naval fig D@4 only in a Dog Fight ?

I know that Carriers were only firing at aircraft, since it is A2 D4, I was wondering if you are going to keep every AA roll @3 to keep things simple. Or make Carrier special in that regard with a little higher and lower values.

@Imperious-Leader said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

OK keep in mind only some nations modified their cruisers as AA gun platforms. USA and to a lessor extent Japan utilized this capability. The elite ships of the German Navy also had this. Otherwise, the Cruiser was a protector for Carriers or long range “hunter”

If your keeping D6, im not in favor of multiple dice. D12 is a much better system for this.

No, we are just talking about D12, nothing else. I agree D12 is a much better system when there is many details into the roster and game mechanics.

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

Ok. Then just one last thing
What are you referring too with figsD@4 ?

A naval fig D@4 only in a Dog Fight ?

When I was talking about D@4, it can be understood both ways. Either with your actual Naval Fighter or the yet to implement Fighter with lower cost.

BB and Cruiser with split dice can work for both situations.

@SS-GEN
yea my thinking was if you were concerned with excessive air casualties in the air battle phase you could do something such as, Hit= Die, Miss= Live go onto regular battle and Neutral/No Decision w/e you wanna call it, = doesn’t take place in regular battle but doesn’t Die.

This is represented in regular battle when units miss, but if too many planes either survive or Die in air battle, this would allow another mechanism to regulate the combat.

It could be looked at as a no decision with planes running out of fuel and returning to base after dogfighting or battle damage sustained requiring the same. Not all planes that sustained battle damage were destroyed and not all that did were prevented from completing their mission and engaging in their main, in this case, regular combat either.

Anyway, it may be too tactical for a strategic level game, but thought it could provide an option if air battle casualties were to impactful. So Hit = Die, Miss= Continue, No Result = RTB or Return to Base.

I do follow along here but not 100%, baron can be a little wordy at times : ), so maybe this is already allowed for.

I would love to someday dial your game in for triplea.

Rock On Guys :)

Here’s what I’m going with in next 2 games in 1 weekend.
BB C15 A@3 plane A@6 ship M2 A@3 plane A@3 ship 1 damage
CR C10 A@3 plane A@4 ship M3
CV C14 A@0 D@4 plane M2 A@2 plane 1 damage
CVE C8 A@0 D@2 plane M2
DD C6 A@3 D@3 M2
SS C7 A@5 D@2 M2
TR C7 A@1 D@1 M2 can only take as casualty with planes in battles.
If you take as a casualty you do not get your AD@1shot at a plane.
Fig C10 A@6 D@7 M5 DF A@3 D@3
Tac C10 A@7 D@5 M5 DF@1 Roll a 3 or less can pick target with return shot
N Fig C10 A@5 D@7 M4 DF A@3 D@4
D. Bomb C10 A@7 D@5 M4 DF@1 Roll a 3 or less can pick target with return shot.
Stg. B C10 4 A@3 1 round only. D@2 M6 DF@1 cannot hit Naval ships.
Remember also there is 1 round of Dog fight and Combat. Then all attacking and defending planes can retreat.
Only naval planes can land on Carriers.

For now the changes were to the BB, CR, N. Fig Defense and Cost for N Fig, D bomb
was 11 down to 10.
Baron feel free if you think there needs to be a tweak to a piece here.
You mentioned bringing Carrier C12.
Would be nice if at least the Naval planes went to C9. Even Fig and Tac without changing AD values for planes. If you get Industrial Tech in game certain pieces are -1 in cost. Still got time here to tweak and do some small test battles and a turn 1 test on my map for game in Europe for Germany and UK.
As far as what IL said he basically is saying UK and Italy doesn’t get the AA shots ?

@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

CV C14 A@0 D@4 plane M2 A@2 plane 1 damage
CVE C8 A@0 D@2 plane M2
CR C10 A@3 plane A@4 ship M3
DD C6 A@3 D@3 M2
SS C7 A@5 D@2 M2

Thanks SS for providing all these values about your full roster.

Everything seems correct and interesting.
Maybe, Cruiser @4 vs ship may seems too low in comparison to Submarine @5.
Can you rise C10 Cruiser to @5 for regular combat?

My other tweak would be to simplify to the @3 AA basic values as main reference.
So here is my suggestion:
CV C14 A@0 D@4 plane M2 A@3 plane 1 damage
CVE C8 A@0 D@3 plane M2

That way, except for the better @4 AA platform such as a Fleet Carrier or a Naval Fighter, all AA rolls will be “3”.

IMO, it will help to maximize the pace and get use to the special AA roll with Cruiser and Battleship, so everyone will get use to this @3 value.

For now, about C14 Carrier, I’m kind have a mixed feeling about it because with a high C10 aircraft, it is a bless to be able to shot them down @4 so, why lower to C12?
If you ever lower the Naval Fg and DiveBomber around C7, then it may be needed to lower Carrier to C12. Otherwise, I would test at C14 for now.

@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:

@SS-GEN
yea my thinking was if you were concerned with excessive air casualties in the air battle phase you could do something such as, Hit= Die, Miss= Live go onto regular battle and Neutral/No Decision w/e you wanna call it, = doesn’t take place in regular battle but doesn’t Die.

This is represented in regular battle when units miss, but if too many planes either survive or Die in air battle, this would allow another mechanism to regulate the combat.

It could be looked at as a no decision with planes running out of fuel and returning to base after dogfighting or battle damage sustained requiring the same. Not all planes that sustained battle damage were destroyed and not all that did were prevented from completing their mission and engaging in their main, in this case, regular combat either.

Anyway, it may be too tactical for a strategic level game, but thought it could provide an option if air battle casualties were to impactful. So Hit = Die, Miss= Continue, No Result = RTB or Return to Base.

I do follow along here but not 100%, baron can be a little wordy at times : ), so maybe this is already allowed for.

I would love to someday dial your game in for triplea.

Rock On Guys :)

Hi Barney,
long time, no see.
All because of a lady… :)
Do you know if it is a complex matter to translate the D6 mechanics from Triple A into a D12?
Does someone in the Triple A worked out something about Global into a D12 game?

What is the difference between Miss and No Result in your suggestion?
I don’t see the nuance you want to implement.

I made changes. For carriers it looks like your giving a reg Carrier an Attack value ?
Here’s what I’m seeing. Let me know if this was your intention
CR A@3 plane A@5 ship
C.V. A@3 plane D@3 plane 1 dam AD@2 plane
ECV A0 D@3 plane

@baron-Münchhausen

Hi baron

Best reason of all : )

Yea D12 is np for triplea.

What i meant about Miss and No Result is in regular combat, plane attacks and it misses it obviously does no damage. With Air battle before regular combat, No Result would give one another mechanism for balancing air units.
Hit kills a plane and goes on to regular battle, miss = no hit in air battle but makes it through to attack in regular battle. No Result would be a major air battle that uses too much fuel or sustain battle damage forcing one to Return To Base.

Basically, if Air Battle phase is to unbalanced because of potentially too many casualties before regular combat, this would give a way to help regulate it. Lower cost of planes, which you guys are doing, will help as well.

i found with air battle and the price of planes in global (the way triplea uses it), it’s a big risk, especially if you’re heavily outnumbered. All your planes could get shot down or not be able to participate in the regular combat. Defender is worse because if you lose ground battle your planes die anyway without getting to fight at all.

Idk, cheaper planes with lower combat values compared to global is probably a bigger balancer, which is what it seems that you guys are doing.