Here’s the Armies vs Navies idea I came up with!
G40 Balance Mod - Feedback Thread
-
gamer, have you tried a Russian marine yet? Can be a fun bit of threat projection when Germany moves all its fleet and air to gibraltar/north africa. heheh
-
Nope - I’m probably more likely to buy a Russian destroyer for 127…… against a weaker opponent :-P
-
Please exclude turkmen and/or Kazakh from the no allies on Russian NO
-
Please exclude turkmen and/or Kazakh from the no allies on Russian NO
Why? The point of the Russian NO is to provide an incentive for Russia to fight alone, and already UK can help out in Caucasus with no penalty, unless Germany forgoes taking back Caucasus, but then Germany loses 7 PUs.
-
No it’s not about Russia. It’s the road to China from the Middle East. Why shud Russia be penalized or care if allies are en route to help the Chinese? It’s very annoying that if allies are wanting to help the Chinese via a stream of reinforcements the Russians get hit.
-
No it’s not about Russia. It’s the road to China from the Middle East. Why shud Russia be penalized or care if allies are en route to help the Chinese? It’s very annoying that if allies are wanting to help the Chinese via a stream of reinforcements the Russians get hit.
It would be annoying for Japan if China could be reinforced while they can’t do anything about it (Japan needs to be at war to invade Russia).
-
All good points as to why Marines are the way they are. There are too many starting Cruisers/Battleships in the starting set up for Global 1940 2nd edition, which then greatly increases the value you get from purchasing enough Marines to fill your starting Cruisers/Battleships because it increases your overall “Amphibious Landing value” (total amount of units that can possibly be offloaded onto a territory in X amount of turns if all IPC’s are spent on transports/ground to go in the transports). Making Marines a 2/2/1 might be too strong in Global, but in the future sets I think you’ll need to make the Marine a 2/2/1.
So what I see happening is in future sets no one will purchase Marines after they have have enough to fill the starting Cruisers/Battleships. This is because the marine has very little value when you need to “shuck units” (usually involving 2 main groups of transports. One group picks up the units purchased turn before and lands them in your “shuck zone”, and one group that goes back to the purchase zone.), and you don’t want to build Cruisers/Battleships for your fleet because their cost/effectiveness ratio is horrible when compared to other sea units when you are looking at defensive/offensive value in sea battles. I would much rather purchase: infantry, artillery, transport, 2 subs, and a destroyer =34 IPC’s over 2 cruisers, 2 marines =34 IPC’s. So then you ask yourself what is the point of the Marine unit if all that are ever built are for the starting Cruisers/Battleships on the board? That is why I think for future sets Marines might be more playable at a stat line of 2/2/1 with text “+1 attack when Amphib Assaulting, does not receive bonus from artillery, 4 transport cost”. In future sets you might not have a lot of Cruisers/Battleships in the starting set up, and you can always balance the map appropriately to allow for the increased “implied threat” that Cruisers/Battleships give to the total “Amphibious Landing value” (total amount of units that can possibly be offloaded onto a territory in X amount of turns if all IPC’s are spent on transports/ground to go in the transports).
-
All good points as to why Marines are the way they are. There are too many starting Cruisers/Battleships in the starting set up for Global 1940 2nd edition, which then greatly increases the value you get from purchasing enough Marines to fill your starting Cruisers/Battleships because it increases your overall “Amphibious Landing value” (total amount of units that can possibly be offloaded onto a territory in X amount of turns if all IPC’s are spent on transports/ground to go in the transports). Making Marines a 2/2/1 might be too strong in Global, but in the future sets I think you’ll need to make the Marine a 2/2/1.
So what I see happening is in future sets no one will purchase Marines after they have have enough to fill the starting Cruisers/Battleships. This is because the marine has very little value when you need to “shuck units” (usually involving 2 main groups of transports. One group picks up the units purchased turn before and lands them in your “shuck zone”, and one group that goes back to the purchase zone.), and you don’t want to build Cruisers/Battleships for your fleet because their cost/effectiveness ratio is horrible when compared to other sea units when you are looking at defensive/offensive value in sea battles. I would much rather purchase: infantry, artillery, transport, 2 subs, and a destroyer =34 IPC’s over 2 cruisers, 2 marines =34 IPC’s. So then you ask yourself what is the point of the Marine unit if all that are ever built are for the starting Cruisers/Battleships on the board? That is why I think for future sets Marines might be more playable at a stat line of 2/2/1 with text “+1 attack when Amphib Assaulting, does not receive bonus from artillery, 4 transport cost”. In future sets you might not have a lot of Cruisers/Battleships in the starting set up, and you can always balance the map appropriately to allow for the increased “implied threat” that Cruisers/Battleships give to the total “Amphibious Landing value” (total amount of units that can possibly be offloaded onto a territory in X amount of turns if all IPC’s are spent on transports/ground to go in the transports).
As a side note I’d loved it if they changed the cost of Cruiser to 11 and Battleships to 18. They would still be “niche” buys, but at least they would have a place in the game besides just starting units on the board. Making them cost 11 and 18, and giving them the ability to transport a Marine, would mean they are still bad transport units, but not as horrible in places like the pacific in global 1940. I just don’t know why Larry values the bombardment ability so highly… It isn’t that often that you get to use it, it is easily blocked, when you do get to use it the extra firepower you get isn’t that much, unlike in Revised, the units get to return fire, and most of the time you get to bombard is when you would have easily won the battle without it because you have overwhelming firepower. The only real good part about bombard, IMO is the threat projection it allows, but I think he overvalued this threat projection because fighters, do it better and are more malleable than cruisers/battleships.
-
Honestly, I don’t envision further changes to unit stats/costs in Balance Mod. I understand your sharing more general ideas about game redesign, but that is a conversation that is better held in the G40 redesign thread. For the sake of argument, though, I have no problem with the fact that battleships/cruisers are purchased infrequently in G40 games, since, historically, the aircraft carrier ushered in the obsolescence of those units.
Roc, would u be interested in a game of Balance Mod? Your choice of side.
-
I have no problem with the fact that battleships/cruisers are purchased infrequently in G40 games, since, historically, the aircraft carrier ushered in the obsolescence of those units.
Yes
-
Agreed Regular Kid, but they were still built. At 11 and 18 they would be infrequently built, but they might then get built at least once in the game… I am hesitant to play again. It has been so damn long since I’ve actually played a game that wasn’t me playing myself and theory crafting moves and builds lol. I might have to just to back up my understanding of the game sometime though :)
-
“I might have to just to back up my understanding of the game sometime though” the experience of actually playing games against human opponents provides insight that no amount of theory crafting can, imo. it is for this reason that I ask commenters here to post the number of BM games completed in their feedback. If ur ever in the mood for a game, just shoot me a PM.
-
Thanks. Will do!
-
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37805.0
looks like the game designers are wanting to correct this, as it was likely a misprint. maybe it should be corrected in BM as well.
-
Hasn’t been decided yet - let’s wait for the decree from on high
-
Hasn’t been decided yet - let’s wait for the decree from on high
who cares what they decide, we know it’s clearly a printing mistake and they acknowledge that (if not explicitly, at least implicitly by requesting play testing). they haven’t decided yet because they’re worried about how it might affect game balance, but we all know the standard ed isn’t balanced anyway. if we wait, what we’d be waiting for would be all the play-testing against the standard ed, which doesn’t help BM ed much.
what i see it would mainly affect for BM is the scenario when the axis don’t go vichy and hence FWA remains french.
anyway i’m just suggesting the mod squad look into it as well.
-
ya ya, but it would be nice if it’s the same for both. That’s my whole point. It sounds like they’re going to decide very soon. It’s not that big of a deal anyway
-
Gentlemen,
After much deliberation, soul searching, and reflection, the Mod Squad has decided to release Balance Mod 2.0. This will be an updated version of the mod based on feedback we received, here and elsewhere on the forum. I’m putting the finishing touches on the XML now, and the release will likely happen early next week.
The changes might be described as modest Some have already been discussed on this thread. They’ve undergone play testing. We would like to submit them for comment one last time before the release is finalized.
Here are the changes:
1. Correction: XML corrected to award 5 PUs for USA’s Vital Forward Bases objective (was incorrectly coded to award 4).
2. Vichy France Revision: Vichy French conversion of territory can only be prevented by non-French allied land units. Any non-French allied air units on French territories that convert to Vichy French are immediately destroyed.
3. Revised German National Objective: 5 PUs if there is at least one German land unit in either London (the United Kingdom) or Egypt. (This modifies Germany’s “Presence in Egypt” objective).
4. New German National Objective - Control of Balkans: 2 PUs if Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania, Greece, and Crete are Axis or Pro-Axis controlled.
5. Revised UK Pacific Objective: 3 PUs for UK Pacific when at war with the Japanese if Malaya and Kwantung are Allied controlled. (This modifies UK Pacific’s “Malaya and Kwantung” objective.
6. Revised ANZAC Objective: 3 PUs if ANZAC is at war with the Japanese, controls all of its original territories, and Malaya is Allied controlled. (This modifies ANZAC’s “Control Original And Malaya” objective).
Note: With these changes, all UK and Anzac National Objectives are now worth 3 PUs.
Would appreciate feedback, particularly from folks who have played/are playing the mod.
thanks all
-
I like the Crete addition for history sake. It would be helpful if you can put all of the NOs in the game notes, including both new and revised ones, and any original ones. thanks
-
Great tweaks except for one in my opinion.
I don’t like the added German NO, especially the Crete part. Crete is already now a part of a UK NO and an Italian NO. I really don’t think the Germans need any more money, especially for territories they’re normally going to get anyway. Also, there is already incentive for UK to get Greece, as part of a new NO of the balanced modIn my opinion, the first “finalized” balanced mod, that we’ve been playing, is actually slanted a tad to the Allies. Backing down India’s Hong Kong NO and ANZAC’s Malaya NO is…… well I think it’s a great idea. But I don’t think this should be compounded with giving Germany +2 - I think Germany gets a tad too much in the NO department already, and this would partly nullify the needed boosts to Russia
Suggested Topics
