German Navy improvements

The Germans wouldn’t have called it CV or AC anyway.

I believe you could have sunk it with one torpedo, whatever it was called,  Herr KaLeun.

Probably not. It took a bit more effort than that to sink the only carrier the Germans launched during the war. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_carrier_Graf_Zeppelin.

Can someone tell me if this is the correct spelling of ImbeciLe?

Had a Nazi carrier been loose in the atlantic instead of the Bismarck or both…

What a great book that would have made.

I did not know the  work on the Carrier was that far advanced. I thought it was just a concept.

The Graf Zeppelin was really a light carrier or CVL. It didn’t have a high plane capacity and would need freedom to operate in open waters from bases in France. I bet it would have been sunk within the week of it’s operation.

The Danish Straights would have been worse, or Norway. UK had many bases outside of enemy planes and many access points to the Atlantic, probably why that CV was never launched. Germany on the other hand was always in threat of UK planes, etc. The U-boat campaign was the only solution for Hitler given his positional disadvantages.

I wouldn’t call the Graf Zeppelin a “light” carrier (let alone CV or CVL, which terminology is used by the US Navy alone). At 33,550 tonnes, the Graf Zeppelin was of comparable size to other WW2 fleet carriers. It did carry fewer planes, though.
If it had been completed (and I don’t say that doing so would have been a good idea in the first place), I think it would have been best used in Norway alongside Tirpitz. Tirpitz was a headache for the British not because of what it did, but because of what it might do, as they constantly had to take its existence into account when operating in the North Atlantic. The planes on Graf Zeppelin could have provided a similar threat. And of course, those planes would have been very useful to protect the ships when the British came to bomb them.

About the Bay of Biscay - I don’t think a German carrier would have been any good there. If Germany lacked the capacity to protect its U-boats with land-based planes by 1943, anything else wouldn’t have worked either.

Apart from all that, more U-boats would definitely have been the best naval build for Germany, imho.

ABWorsham & Others,

––I would say that “all of the above” was part of the original plans for Hitlers’ Navy that didn’t “PLAN” on war breaking out until 1946.

----It seems very obvious that 200(or more) submarines would be the most effective of these limited answers. “Operation Drumbeat” against the U.S.A. had to commence with only a ‘handful’ of U-boats to start their ‘Happy Time’.

----I very much enjoy these discussions on interesting topics as many differing viewpoints can be viewed, and much learned.

“Tall Paul”

@Imperious:

The Graf Zeppelin was really a light carrier or CVL. It didn’t have a high plane capacity and would need freedom to operate in open waters from bases in France. I bet it would have been sunk within the week of it’s operation.

I collected some infos on the Graf Zeppelin and it seemed that the Germans back then didn´t know what to do with a CV anyway.

Bewaffnung:(Armour)

Seeziel-Artillerie:(Sea Arty) 16 x 15 cm L/55 Geschütze in acht Doppellafetten

Flak:(AA guns) 12 x 10,5 cm L/65 in 6 Doppellafetten, 22 x 3,7 cm L/83 in 11 Doppellafetten, 28 x 2 cm in 7 Vierlingslafetten

Flugzeuge:(Planes) 20 Mehrzweck-Maschinen Fi 156, 10 Jagdflugzeuge Me 109 T,  13 Sturzkampfbomber Ju 87 (Die Maschinen sollten in der Trägergruppe 186 zusammengefaßt werden.)

What caught my attention is that the Kriegsmarine seriously considered to use the Fi 156, a propeller plane mostly used for reconaissance missions. It could be equipped with a 135 kg waterbomb or clusters but I doubt the effectivness of those planes in Air to Air combat or Air to sea combat. Only 10 Me´s and 13 Stukkas would have been on the CV.

What were they thinking??..reconaissance the enemy to death?.. :-D

Nice work Aequitas et Veritas.
I do think reconnaissance is underrated though. Think of the possibilities: they would always have found the Tirpitz if she ever got lost in those fjords!

The problem was that: The Military Academies of the Kriegsmarine taught whatever the corresponding teacher knew and served on. For example. Had the teacher for the class been on a crusier, then mainly those were the ship types he emphasized. Was the teacher on a destroyer then those ships had been the Backbone of the KM, so we get the idea.
(so far the portrait of the KM)

The Germans simply lacked on experience on a CV. They started buiding the Graf in 1936 I think and ´39/´40 they started to redesign arround 60 Bf 109 T  former E3 modells By Fiseler manufacturer.

IL ´s assumption of a CV light isn´t so far away if we look what operational goal it w©ould have had but on the other hand it´s dimensions are closer to give us a view for a greater support Aircraft Carrier for Battleships the Germans had in mind then.

I couldn´t find a confirmed statement for its use.
who knows…

CVL are carriers that accommodate less planes, something under 45 planes. The primary distinction seems to be this.

‘Jeep Carriers’ or CVE are even smaller and carry something 20-25 planes tops.

Germany has no experience with carriers so this first offering would have been a disaster. Launch from dry-dock today, get sunk tomorrow type of thing.

Plus too many IF’s….Goering wanted control of everything that fly’s and to allow separate control to the navy would have proved impossible due to inter-service rivalry. So a carrier with no planes would have been the result…

200 Uboats hands down, and the technology matters too since the 1939 uboats operated from far distant bases. Additional naval aircraft surely would help, but all these subs in 1939 would have a considerable impact (as opposed to what, 30 uboats at the onset?).

It was always my understanding that the Graf Zeppelin was intended to be used in concert with surface raiders and U-boots.  It would have given the Germans a fairly big advantage in reconnaissance in the early period of the war of the Atlantic, allowing U-boots and raiders to more effectively find and destroy British shipping.

Where can I buy a pair of U-Boots?