Hitler always sounds more authentic speaking Scottish.
@wittmann:
I am afraid, PP, that I was thoroughly disappointed with the film.
I think the characters were very badly cast and the acting was atrocious.
Oh witt! Oh Hoff! Oh YG!
Perhaps the presence of Rachel Weisz blinded me to these shortcomings! :-)
I thought it might have been Bob Hoskins, so that is a relief!
Why? Did you want him all to yourself?
Been a long time since I saw “Enemy at the Gates”. It was ok, but not as interesting an experience as watching the German film “Stalingrad”. I don’t know if “Stalingrad” deserves to be in a Top 10 list, but if any Stalingrad themed movie makes an elite list, I would back that one. Yes, Stalingrad is a dark and frankly depressing film, but in this respect it reflects its subject matter.
Stalingrad is a very authentic movie and I agree with you Zhukov44.
It should be on the list. :-)
Really weird thing in enemy at the Gates - Ron Perlman dubbed into an English accent. If he’s supposed to be Russian what the hell? :?
If Stalingrad goes on, what comes off?
Is this the latest list YG?
1. Das Boot (The Boat)
2. A Bridge to Far
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Patton
5. The Battle of the Bulge
6. The Longest Day
7. Tora, Tora, Tora
8. Went the Day Well
9. The Battle of Britain
10. Midway
Not seen Stalingrad, but have seen all of the above and hardly remember Tora, Tora, Tora - so for me that’s the most likely candidate for removal.
@Private:
Is this the latest list YG?
1. Das Boot (The Boat)
2. A Bridge toO Far
3. Saving Private Ryan
4. Patton
5. The Battle of the Bulge
6. The Longest Day
7. Tora, Tora, Tora
8. Went the Day Well
9. The Battle of Britain
10. MidwayNot seen Stalingrad, but have seen all of the above and hardly remember Tora, Tora, Tora - so for me that’s the most likely candidate for removal.
I would say No. 8 Went the Day Well… granted I have never seen the film, however there are a couple reasons I would say it should come off for another to put on:
a) it is entirely fictional - For some reason, I have always thought that historical or based on actual event war movies are more legitimate (deserve higher regard) than those completely made up. No other film in this Top 10 list is completely fictional; they all closely follow or are based on historical events/battles.
b) it is a propaganda film - I personally give less critical regard to many of the 1940s “flag waving” films, precisely because they are as biased/narrowly written as possible. This film may be an exception, I really don’t know, but the war films of that era (when the war was taking place) were rarely made for creative or thought provoking purposes other than to motivate your people to defeat the enemy. Thus they often lack the nuance of later films, even if that “nuance” is simply that things were not always positive and not every battle was won. Narratives for these types of films tend to be very one dimensional.
c) they were made during the war - This relates to the above point, but goes further in that, by being made during the war, there was no time for the events portrayed to sink in to the collective consciousness of the world/society. This leads to propagandizing and flag waving, but it also means that people making the film are often deprived of the grander picture; the war is not often seen for what it truly is or regarded the same way that it is once it has ended and people can soberly look back on it.
Again… I cannot say that all these elements are included in this film, so Marc you may have to correct me. However, I would say that this film should be removed before any other currently on the list to make room for Stalingrad. I haven’t seen Stalingrad either, but from what I have read it is very much an action oriented film (what this list is about).
Tora, Tora, Tora IMO should remain unless bumped by a worthy movie. It is a classic take on the most famous (besides Overlord) US battle and is quite good for its time.
Again… I cannot say that all these elements are included in this film, so Marc you may have to correct me. However, I would say that this film should be removed before any other currently on the list to make room for Stalingrad.
I have no problem with taking “Went the Day Well?” off the list. My February 18 post, in which I first mentioned it, wasn’t actually a nomination of that film for the top 10 list. I simply mentioned it in the course of making a larger argument about film scale versus film quality – and in fact I specifically said that “I wouldn’t call it “one of the greatest” because it’s a very modest production.”
On a different subject, I once heard a funny (but actually rather believable) theory saying that films which depict and are titled after a historical battle tend to be less good than films which depict but are NOT titled after a historical battle. Some examples that fit are:
Pearl Harbor (2001) isn’t as good as Tora, Tora, Tora (1970)
The Battle of the Bulge (1965) isn’t as good as Battleground (1949)
D-Day the Sixth of June (1956) isn’t as good as The Longest Day (1962)
I haven’t seen either Stalingrad or Enemy at the Gates, so I don’t know if they fit this pattern.
@CWO:
On a different subject, I once heard a funny (but actually rather believable) theory saying that films which depict and are titled after a historical battle tend to be less good than films which depict but are NOT titled after a historical battle. Some examples that fit are:
Pearl Harbor (2001) isn’t as good as Tora, Tora, Tora (1970)
The Battle of the Bulge (1965) isn’t as good as Battleground (1949)
D-Day the Sixth of June (1956) isn’t as good as The Longest Day (1962)
I haven’t seen either Stalingrad or Enemy at the Gates, so I don’t know if they fit this pattern.
Interesting point and from the examples given I would agree with the theory.
An exception might be Midway, but then again I don’t know of any other film which depicts the Battle of Midway other than the Charlton Heston movie.
An exception might be Midway, but then again I don’t know of any other film which depicts the Battle of Midway other than the Charlton Heston movie.
John Ford – who was on the island itself during the battle – made a colour documentary titled The Battle of Midway. The title is, however, almost identical to the Charlton Heston film, so the pairing doesn’t actually fit the dichotomy I mentioned. I’ve seen both movies. The Ford documentary is okay, but the feature is infinitely more interesting and exciting. I think some of Ford’s footage ended up in the later movie. One notable aspect of the Ford picture is that it’s not staged; in some shots, in fact, you can see the frame registration jumping around because nearby bomb blasts shook up the camera as Ford and his assistants were shooting.
The Day Went Well is off - Stalingrad is on.
Small correction for the honourable mention list: it should be “Went the Day Well?” (with a question mark), not “The Day Went Well”.
The title derives from a WWI epitaph written by John Maxwell Edmonds:
Went the day well?
We died and never knew.
But, well or ill,
Freedom, we died for you.
A few movies that havent been mentioned or are hard to come by.
-Wake Island
-1939 Westerplatte
-Letters from Iwo Jima
-Downfall (more focused on the insanity of the final days in Hitlers bunker)
-Sink the Bismarck
A few movies that havent been mentioned or are hard to come by.
-Wake Island
-1939 Westerplatte
-Letters from Iwo Jima
-Downfall (more focused on the insanity of the final days in Hitlers bunker)
-Sink the Bismarck
Downfall and Sink the Bismark were mentioned earlier in this thread and are commercially available on DVD.
Wake Island (which I’ve seen) was – if I’m not mistaken – referred to after the war by survivors of the island’s Marine garrison as “one of the greatest fiction films of all time.” And it wasn’t intended to be a compliment. The story is mostly invented nonsense focusing on a couple of Marine hotheads who are perpetually getting into fights with each other, and whose only point of agreement is that they dislike some of their superiors. The film also ends by giving the heroic (but inaccurate) impression that the Marines on Wake fought and died to the last man. In reality, the Marines on Wake certainly did make a very valiant stand, and held up the Japanese invaders longer than a small garrison of their size would have been expected to do, but there were definitely survivors.
An exception might be Midway, but then again I don’t know of any other film which depicts the Battle of Midway other than the Charlton Heston movie.
I’ve just remembered a film that (sort of) fits the pattern for Midway, if you take into account the fact that the TV version of Midway includes the Battle of the Coral Sea. There’s a 1959 film called “The Battle of the Coral Sea,” which I’ve seen, that actually has almost nothing to do with the Battle of the Coral Sea. The first few segments of the film are a submarine caper (with a few comic overtones), while the middle part – the bulk of the film – reminds me more of The Bridge on the River Kwai than anything else. It’s about Allied prisonners being tortured for information on an island by Japanese officers. Gia Scala – who would go on to play a similar (but reversed) role in the Guns of Navaronne – provides the requisite romantic interest. The film ends with what purports to be a depiction of the Battle of the Coral Sea, but it’s short and it has virtually no resemblance to the actual events of the battle and (as I recall) it’s cobbled together from all sorts of fictitious stock footage.
@CWO:
I’ve just remembered a film that (sort of) fits the pattern for Midway, if you take into account the fact that the TV version of Midway includes the Battle of the Coral Sea. There’s a 1959 film called “The Battle of the Coral Sea,” which I’ve seen, that actually has almost nothing to do with the Battle of the Coral Sea. The first few segments of the film are a submarine caper (with a few comic overtones), while the middle part – the bulk of the film – reminds me more of The Bridge on the River Kwai than anything else. It’s about Allied prisonners being tortured for information on an island by Japanese officers. Gia Scala – who would go on to play a similar (but reversed) role in the Guns of Navaronne – provides the requisite romantic interest. The film ends with what purports to be a depiction of the Battle of the Coral Sea, but it’s short and it has virtually no resemblance to the actual events of the battle and (as I recall) it’s cobbled together from all sorts of fictitious stock footage.
Hahaha… WTF? :lol:
Hahaha… WTF? :lol:
Yeah, that was pretty much my reaction when I watched it the first time. Unless I’m mistaking it for another film, it includes an early scene in which an enterprising member of the crew of the submarine (which is in port at the time) charges his buddies five bucks apiece to look for a few seconds into the periscope viewfinder to get an eyeful of some pretty girls in bathing suits who are lounging nearby. An officer notices what’s going on, looks through the periscope to find out why a bunch of sailors are lined up next to it – then, without looking away, reaches into his pocket, pulls out a five, hands it to the sailor who’s running the racket…and keeps right on staring into the eyepiece.
