What you say correspond s to my experience
All the Russian openings: For Begginers
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Just found this thread, so figured I’d throw my two cents in the ring, since Allies are more fun to play than Axis in this version (even if they have a much harder time winning).
Under LHTR (AKA “Gencon 3.0” or whatever they call it in AAO), killing the German bomber is the linchpin of the entire Allied opening, as you need the following chain of events to occur:
- USSR kills Germany’s bomber in Ukraine R1.
- No Bomber for Germany = Germany can’t reliably kill Egypt G1.
- Egypt surviving = UK gets an extra FTR B1 for use against the IJN off DEI (SZ37)
- Extra fighter for UK against SZ37 fleet = UK trades its entire Pacific fleet to take down half the IJN B1.
- Japan losing half its navy = Their offensive momentum is totally halted, giving the Allies a solid amount of wiggle room to play the game.
This necessity, coupled with the necessity of taking West Russia R1, as it is the most important tile in Russia in terms of what it connects to, means that you can’t expect to hold Karelia. Thus, I go for the following opening:
Karelia: FTR -> Ukraine, rest -> W. Russia
Archangel: All -> W. Russia
Moscow: Tanks + FTRs -> Ukraine, rest to W. Russia
Caucasus: All -> UkraineDespite this, you can and may lose the Ukraine fight. However, due to the default AAO Defense Profiles (WHICH YOU CAN CHANGE IN THE SETTINGS BY THE WAY, PLEASE DO THIS) being terrible, Germany by-default will lose the Bomber last, which means that pulling out after killing the Bomber is not usually an option.
For the Siberia guys, there’s more flexibility with what you can do, but you at least want the Kazakh guy going to Szechwan, move the Ural guys to Archangel, move the Novosibirsk guy to Moscow and to consolidate the guys in Yakut/SFE/Bury. I like to stick them in Yakut, but you can go for Buryatia if you’re planning on a KJF for whatever reason.
After the opening, as Black_Elk said, the strategy depends on the ebb and flow of the game. Things like how Germany/Japan are playing, how dice rolls are going, etc. This determines whether you build 1-2 TANKs with your land units, or all INF/ART. I don’t agree with the notion that the Soviets should be buying FTRs ever. Leave the expensive units to USA/UK.
Finally, I personally find Strat Bombing worthless. Bombers are expensive and don’t pay for themselves until a point where the game has usually been decided one way or the other anyway. For the price of the Bomber you’re gambling IPC value on, you can buy 2 SUBs, 4 INF, 3 ART, or 2 TANK, based on your needs. All of these options are blatantly superior to a Bomber. The only thing that’s worse for you value-wise is probably a Cruiser, lol.
EDIT: I’m specifically talking about purchasing a BOMB. Bidding for one is perfectly acceptable due to how the bidding rules work. An extra BOMB in Russia’s opener gives you much better odds in Ukraine, and you then have the ability to keep the Bomber alive for other roles on both sides of the map.
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This worked rather brilliantly on the first go, mostly due to luck. Beat Ukraine with 3 tanks left, then proceeded to win on Sz 37 with 1 sub a Carrier and 2 fighters left lol. That was pure luck. He then attacked the USA Pacific fleet, leaving me enough to take out both the Carrier and Cruiser there with the USA, as well as the battleship two destroyers and transport in Sz 61 UK2, brought in 2 fighters to do so from India. This left him with no fleet worth mentioning. I guess I could go kjf, but think I’ll use the extra time in India to really push Germany.
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Don’t like taking UKR, Rather i hit and run. I value the 3 tanks et al with more value to USSR then killing a German Fighter/Bomber. Heck those tanks are 18, the two planes are 22. For USSR it is close to catastrophic only eclipsed by losing the two fighters ( which i have seen noob’s going after the German fleet on R1, or defending in Karelia). I dont like bombing either if you only got 1-2 Bombers. Bombers allow a player the “reach” necessary to keep the enemy honest. Also, the 4 hit unit seems to mean close to automatic hits and a proven killer of land, sea, and air…
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I think there is some confusion, I don’t strategic bomb, I was speaking of the Axis strategy to hit Russia from G1 on with Bombers from Japan and Germany. This makes Russia even more cash strapped and can significantly speed their downfall. It’s not a tactic I deploy, it’s one I’ve struggled to counter.
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On G1 you need that plus what is the point? LH rules are often used and USSR takes out the Bomber. If Germany still has one, its gonna kill more enemy IPC on G1 and its needed and not to be used like that especially if you only have ONE.
On G1 i only buy fleet and if its not LH setup, then i buy a 2nd Bomber. Bombing sucks unless out of desperation or you can overload the AA gun with 3+ planes.
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@DoManMacgee said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
Karelia: FTR -> Ukraine, rest -> W. Russia
Archangel: All -> W. Russia
Moscow: Tanks + FTRs -> Ukraine, rest to W. Russia
Caucasus: All -> UkraineExactly. and the sub does not stack with the UK fleet. Germany wont buy a Destroyer early in the game and that sub can do alot of damage…Latter
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The point for Germany being that with 2 Bombers and the luck to never lose one, and 2-3 from Japan, they can completely destroy Russia’s income. This takes away any opportunity to counter strike, or build a big stack on West Russia as with both Japan and Germany knocking at the door of Moscow and no money, they crumble fast.
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Japans bomber cant reach unless Godzilla will protect it after it lands. Japan needs it to take out Hawaii fleet ( along with other items). So Japan needs it to address the imbalance she faces to start the game economically. That only means to kill so many units that for a period of time at least, Japan can float and accomplish her goals in Asia and take the properties that will give her economic parity. J1 is about killing the units before UK/USA gang up (USSR too).
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@Imperious-Leader said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
Don’t like taking UKR, Rather i hit and run. I value the 3 tanks et al with more value to USSR then killing a German Fighter/Bomber.
I don’t like taking Ukraine either in a F2F game, but in AAO most people stick with the default “defense profile” which means you kind of have to take the territory if you want to kill the Bomber. Killing that Bomber impacts a lot more than the USSR Vs. Germany front, so I think losing the Tanks is worth killing the Bomber for.
I’ve already argued with you in a different thread about Karelia. Since we’re talking about LHTE/42.3/AAO/whatever, I agree with you that attacking Germany’s fleet with the FTRs/attempting to defend Karelia is pointless.
@Imperious-Leader said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
Exactly. and the sub does not stack with the UK fleet. Germany wont buy a Destroyer early in the game and that sub can do alot of damage…Latter
I do actually stack the sub with the UK Fleet, I just have it submerge and avoid combat so it can potentially pick off the Cruiser Germany leaves behind or Transport in SZ5 (if Germany didn’t buy navy G1) later.
@theskeindhu said in All the Russian openings: For Begginers:
The point for Germany being that with 2 Bombers and the luck to never lose one, and 2-3 from Japan, they can completely destroy Russia’s income. This takes away any opportunity to counter strike, or build a big stack on West Russia as with both Japan and Germany knocking at the door of Moscow and no money, they crumble fast.
I don’t agree with Japan doing SBRs. If you’re committing your Bombers to that they need to be based in one of the Chinese territories, which puts them too far inland to pose a threat to an advancing USN. I see a lot of Allied Players making the mistake of sending the USN directly towards Japan. They really should be camping out in the Solomon Islands, then striking at Borneo/DEI/Philippines. That way they can drain Japan’s income and potentially land in India to bail out to UK if Japan’s stack in Burma is getting too big.
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Got 40 some odd games clocked so far as Allies in A&AO, and that Russian sub defending in sz7 saved the British battleship in half a dozen of those games, saved the transport in a few more than that, and helped peel off a German fighter even more often. Even in games when Axis sent an extra sub from sz9. Just by being there it tends to make the opponent pull a sub off transport battles in sz10 or 11. So I think its a sound play sending the sub to defend.
Karelia remains indefensible same as OOB, but I agree Ukraine is a toss up (the whole first round is pretty dicey), but I find leaving the Bomber alive just gives Germany too many options, unless it was like a perfect strafe and the opponent’s defense profile was customized, and W. Russia went really well. I think its better to run the West Russia fight first, so you know what you’re dealing with. I think it defaults to whatever battle had the first combat movement into it, so you might have to manually click W. Russia if you want to run it first, to determine if a lucky strafe will even have any real pay off. If you can’t deadzone Karelia, because G put up a bunch of hits in W. Russia then its sort of fruitless to strafe anyway. Usually I just fight it out in Ukraine. Average is 2 tanks remaining, but I’ve seen that fight go way south more than a few times, so its certainly not a sure shot.
I think bombers are best used for fleet screening, but once you’re on the center even one solid SBR can have a huge impact on Russia’s ability to stack enough hitpoints to match what Axis can throw at them in a critical round. Better to wait until you have 3 or 4 to make it worth it though, that’s my feeling anyway.
The difficult thing with Gencon is that a lot of times a couple early fighter or sub exchanges going well or going poorly can tip the balance pretty dramatically for either side. The script on that one is more dicey than OOB for sure.
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@Black_Elk Gosh, 40!? I only have like 8 as each side post-placement games. No wonder I can barely stay in the top 100.
I should have mentioned the whole “resolve W. Russia first” thing in my other post, sorry. I thought that was just the standard operating procedure.
Also agree on Ukraine (and the opening turn in general) being very swingy. I’ve had things like the Ukr. Attack, the Attack on SZ2, Egypt, and the India Fleet Vs. IJN in SZ37 go extremely wonky and basically tilt the game in one direction or the other. In F2F tournaments bids usually fix this (either with an extra ART to Caucasus or an extra SUB to the India Fleet), but in AAO we don’t have that luxury.
Honestly, in AAO I haven’t had many games drag out long enough where SBRs would have helped. I’ve steamrolled most of my Axis games by Round 4/5, and as Allies the Axis have only really been getting within one tile of Moscow and sustaining their presence in games they were already going to win anyway.
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i got 580 hrs at it. Also, if you use 3 tanks and 2 planes and hit and run you remove any threat to Caucasus and West Russia. If you use Caucasus as the pivot, you keep knocking down Karellia/ and or threats against West Russia/Persia. Eventually, you want the pivot to move to Ukraine.
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I haven’t played a game in over two years. My friends that play decided that the game was broken and won’t play. I would like some advice on how to convince them that this isn’t true. The new rules for 42.3 seem like they don’t really fix anything.
So what is AAO? How is it different for Triple-A?
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I only play 42.2 online and i do pay the Harry Larris 3.0 mod.
84%
Anyway. The Hinge is Caucasus for Russia. You cant lose it and controlling it means you influence UKR, KAR, and West Russia.
Build a tank almost each turn depending on spending all IPC and needs. Don’t buy fighters unless Germany is toast. Don’t buy any navy either or bombers.
Strafe the money pit zones of primary groups of German tanks that have little fodder. Don’t lose your fighters ( most important units you got)
You and the Allies need to be a master of a thousand cuts, forcing Germany to waste her tanks putting out fires every turn. This stops a massed attack against Caucasus.AS UK clear the subs build 1 CV and 2 DD, then build too 4 transports where you shuck 8 land units in France, along with USA
In a far east i recommend bringing all but 3 inf to Moscow. Dont send armies to fight in China. It never works
USA must fight both sides balanced about 60/40 against Germany and gradually increasing to 80% of war potential over 4-6 turns. Force Japan to buy fleet units and fight you, but buy lots of subs which are the “infantry of the seas” and the basic naval unit
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Hey all.
I am a new AA player, currently enjoying AAO.
I only play ranked - that’s Harry Larris 3.0 - and only Axis.
I find this thread really interesting and useful, even tho it’s about allies, as it explains a lot of stuff. This being said, I am looking forward to an Axis opening thread. :)
@Black_Elk If you have time, could you please elaborate a bit on the Japan factory on East indies opening? Why is it hard for allies to crack this one open?
After reading about it in your post, I tried it too, because examining the board it feels much easy to win India in < 3 turns. However, I’m at my 3rd try now, and every time the allied player answered with KJF. Which of course diverts my efforts from attacking India to defending Japan.
Now, discussing allied openings a bit from the other side, I have to say that I struggled the most when the allied player did the followings:
- kill everything in Ukraine, including the fighter
- killed the 2nd japan transport
- took Burma
- landed US atlantic transports in Africa to defend UK
All this together makes it for a very slow axis expansion and allows time to allies to build up their forces.
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Not Black_Elk but it sounds like you’re playing against competent Allied Players. Smashing the Allies by turn 3 in-general kind of stops once you hit upper Gold League/Platinum.
I don’t want to go into too many details, as this is a Russia thread, but Germany/Japan should be focusing their efforts on killing Russia quickly, but safely. Don’t go in guns blazing with all-Tank builds. Exploit the fact that Germany and Japan have superior economies and starting units Vs. the Soviets and push towards Moscow with INF/ART pressure. For Japan in-particular, build more transports to replace the ones you lost, or get an IC on the Asian mainland (Manchuria or French Indochina are the best locations for these).
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@DoManMacgee thanks for your replay.
I am platinum player, indeed (before rank reset, actually) with about 67% WR.
My game plan usually involves taking Leningrad + India + Honolulu. So taking India is more important (and seems more easy) than Moscow. This unless the ally player switches to KJF, in which case is usually piece of cake for Germany to deal with Russia. In fact I never lost a KJF game even if I managed to lose Tokyo once or twice.
In KGF scenario, Japan makes a build up in Burma, supported by 4+4 transports that bring 8 units per turn from Tokyo there, overwelming anything that the ally can do in the long run. And once India falls, it’s usually game over.
Since this is an ally thread, please discuss how can the ally player prevent this, in a KGF scenario?
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Same boat as you, more or less. My path to victory as Axis is usually Leningrad/India/Moscow though. Whenever I go after Honolulu my opponent always seems to just start blowing 100% of the USA’s money on fleet to prevent it.
To answer your question, if the Allies can’t do a 100% KGF before Japan has the time to build up an 8 Transport (for a 4 transport land-bridge between Japan -> Burma), then something’s gone horribly wrong IMO. As an estimate, it would take at least 5-6 turns for Japan to build up a transport fleet that large while also spending IPCs on defending the Pacific from any US attempts at poking around with its starting fleet. 5-6 turns should be more than enough time, on paper, for the Allies to at least kill Germany’s navy + clear out Africa + have the Germans holed up in Germany/Italy/France. At that point, the India stack can retreat, since VCs are no longer an issue, and the Russians can spend all of their money trying to hold Caucasus/Persia while the US/UK try to finish off Germany and win on VCs.
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Hmm, I thought KGF means US moves everything to Atlantic. If it will split build Japan will eat its navy in Pacific. Unless UK wins in S37, but that means the 2nd japan transport will be alive and kicking and frankly I prefere this scenario to a lost transport.
In anycase, my J1 build is usually 3 transports, 1 tank and 1 inf. So getting to 8 transports is not hard, presuming US leaves me alone. And if US split builds, I still have 2 turns to build up vs India until I have to build ships too to compensate, and this means UK has to move everything he’s got here, so even less pressure on Germany.
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Consider a J1 of: 1 fighter, 2 transports, 2 Infantry. Why? You use one fighter as “suicide” against US Pac fleet, and take it off as combat loss, leaving the Cruiser in Hawaii ( possibly the sub too) which forces (if US goes against Japan) to commit all remaining naval in Hawaii.
The Kicker is you position your Jap fleet 2 spaces away with planes including the one you placed in Japan. This completes the annihilation of all US naval assets
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