USA to Italy

[simon33]

^ That’s not what the OP said.

You also need a bunch of planes camped nearby if you don’t want them buying a DD each turn and killing a few subs a go. Or a steady supply of subs I guess.

[Gargantua]

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

Sicily is a great landing zone to support this invasion.

The big question is - What about Japan?

[simon33]

Why Sicily? Are you sending in a suiciding transport to take it then putting an airbase on it next turn to cover your fleet?

[aequitas-et-veritas]

You will have all the Aircover you need.
Problem will still be: Do you get enough units together for this Task?
While you will end up with at last 6 Bmbrs, what will your Navy look like?
1-2 CV’s, couple DD’s plus 6 TT’s???

[Gargantua]

@simon33:

Why Sicily? Are you sending in a suiciding transport to take it then putting an airbase on it next turn to cover your fleet?

Bombers in Gibraltar (with no airbase) can hit rome and land in Sicily
Bombers in London can hit rome and land in Sicily
Bombers as far away as Iraq can hit rome and land in Sicily.

I have done the suicide transport before, although you dont always have to, and sometimes if you have a whack of bombers, you can use this to “surprise” an opponent by suddenly having an available landing zone for your planes next turn that they didnt expect, where they simply cant get enough units built or moved into Rome in time to defend against.

It’s not some “must” move, its just an option sometimes and one that people should be aware of.

It’s also helpful because if your fleet moves there its likely to get swarmed by German airpower.  Now you dont have to do the “should I tip my carrier or kill a plane” decision.  You can just tip all your ships because your air can always land on sicily.  so its better fleet protection just by existing.

Theoretically an AB could be built there, or even a NB to help the movement of ships, but thats alot of dollar for medium gain.

[Ichabod]

I played against a guy who landed on Crete with the 3 Russian planes. Than the UK bought an air base. And on the next turn, the Russian planes cleared the Italian destroyer blocking in sz 92…US landed on s. Italy and n. Italy. Pretty cool. I never got Italy back the entire game.

I won the game due to other circumstances, like UK getting bad dice on turn 1…clearing up Italy in the med/Africa. Plus I sent Japan to further threaten Middle East /Cairo. Let me get Moscow turn 6. But anyways, it’s something to explore; using Russian planes as a can opener. Of course this causes other problems like Russian maybe falling quick. So it’s got to be like all in to reduce Germany quick before Japan grows too much.

[Ichabod]

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

Too many details!
Step 1 buy naval (I guess all subs and transports)
Step 2 buy bombers (I think I got that one)
Step 3 more subs?
Step 4 attack (like what the Italian blocker?)

[Ichabod]

@weddingsinger:

@oysteilo:

No, you put a ship in 78 and one in 79. No iraq or Persia j3

That only works if UK and Japan are at war.  If Japan didn’t declare, that means UK would have to for the blocking to work.  Once they do that, Japan can attack and it doesn’t bring the U.S. into the war early.

How does Japan move past a UK destroyer in SZ 79 and simultaneously attack/occupy UK controlled Persia?

[Ichabod]

@Marshmallow:

Agreed, I think once the first round or two of can openers is produced for Germany Italy can withstand a direct assault on its own for long enough to make it very expensive for the US. If you take Norway out of the equation as well for the obvious weakness it produces in the Pacific to do both, that also frees up German air units to defend Southern Italy as well.

Still, I’d be interested to see it – I’m sure there are dynamics to it that I’m not seeing.

Marsh

I lost Italy in a game I recently played. I won the game, largely due to other factors. But Italy was never recovered. The US came in with a bomber stack of like 12 bombers, 7 loaded transports and their Pacific Navy. I don’t think that’s really the best plan of course, but I was quite impressed with how much stuff he brought over so fast. He also can opened the Italian destroyer with Russian planes off of Crete / w UK air base.

From and Axis perspective, I’d rather lose Italy than Norway.

[Ichabod]

@GeneralHandGrenade:

Kill Italy First.

I’ve been saying that for a long time and it’s the goal of both my US and UK strategies. When you hit with both you can take N. Italy and S. Italy on the same turn which makes it impossible for Germany to take back. Rome is not Berlin or Tokyo but you might be amazed at how quickly the game turns into the Allies favour when you take the little brother out back behind the woodshed and take his lunch money for the rest of the game. It’s almost impossible to stop them from doing it if they make a concerted effort. Other than sending a ton of German troops down to Italy early and not to the Russian front, the only way to try and stop it is doing Sealion. It’s as close to a guaranteed win for my Allies as you can get if Germany does Sealion.

Kill Italy First!!

I don’t have much experiences being Axis and having lost Italy really ended up hurting me that bad.

From the Axis perspective, sometimes I feel like Norway is more important than Italy.

[V. Manstein]

@Ichabod:

Why would the UK have to declare war in order to use a blocker? Makes no sense. The UK just needs to leave a blocker in sz 79. Japan HAS to be the one to declare war if it wants to capture UK controlled Persia.

Taking Persia or Iraq in this scenario in J3 is not essential.
If any of them is still neutral you can occupy them without declaring war.
But that’s just bonus.

The real goal ist Egypt J4/J5.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

So far i have this buys the first three rounds for the Italy Crush.

1x CV
2x Ftr
4x TT
6x Bmbrs
2x Inf, 1xDD (1xCR 1xTT plus the starting Inf on US soil)

That will leave the US with a solid strike Force on US 4.

[simon33]

Wouldn’t the Luftwaffe smash your fleet? Or is your plan to use the Rome airbase to defend the fleet?

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@simon33:

Wouldn’t the Luftwaffe smash your fleet? Or is your plan to use the Rome airbase to defend the fleet?

Two things i am assuming here:

• turn 4 the Luftwaffe is split.  Some are in Russia, some are either in Germany or Italy.
The German player may assume no bigger threat since the US build is lightly.

• UK needs to make effort to ensure a proper Invasion and Protection.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

I am afraid it is not working :|

[General 6 Stars]

@aequitas:

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

I am afraid it is not working :|

Too much German air ?

[KGrimB]

@aequitas:

@simon33:

Wouldn’t the Luftwaffe smash your fleet? Or is your plan to use the Rome airbase to defend the fleet?

Two things i am assuming here:

� turn 4 the Luftwaffe is split.  Some are in Russia, some are either in Germany or Italy.
The German player may assume no bigger threat since the US build is lightly.

� UK needs to make effort to ensure a proper Invasion and Protection.

@SS:

@aequitas:

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

I am afraid it is not working :|

Too much German air ?

Cow’s steps aren’t supposed to be literally translated into turns. If you are trying out the idea you should use them as more of a guiding principle. First, you need transports to invade and naval to protect those transports. You need bombers to attack the factories in Italy that way once the Italians see you coming for them they cannot build defenses in time. You then need additional naval and bombers to either damage more factories, clear naval blockers, or protect yourself against enemy aircraft. Once these conditions have been met you can land in Rome relatively safe from Axis counterattack.

I think it would be a worthwhile idea during your bomber operations to strike at the factory in Western Germany. To support this I think a small landing in Sicily is also a good idea as a location for your bombers to threaten Axis industries.

You can also choke Italy’s income with submarines which the UK should be able to build 3 of over the course of the game without sacrificing too much. Furthermore, The US should be able to maintain a steady deployment of forces to Honolulu without compromising purchases in the Atlantic.

[aequitas-et-veritas]

@SS:

@aequitas:

@Cow:

Step 1 buy naval
Step 2 buy bombers
Step 3 move naval and bombers in med sea/algeria
step 4 attack

Do it.

I am afraid it is not working :|

Too much German air ?

Italy basically has three turns to send can openers towards Russia.
Then Italy starts build home defense (only Inf and fortify or Naval assets if Taranto did not happen).
Italy allways sees it coming,  simply by looking at Gibraltar.
Gibraltar is the door and the passage is the door bird/spy glas.

Actions can be made by Italy to prevent a Sack.

[simon33]

The axis can defend Italy to prevent it’s death. Germany may need to help, but it’s worth doing. Once the US fleet moves into the med, W Germany doesn’t need to be defended any more.

No evidence has been presented otherwise.

[Arthur Bomber Harris]

I don’t know why people are discounting this bovine theory.  He tends to have great strats that are battle tested against top opponents.  You can argue that a different plan might be more effective, but you can’t argue that this USA to Italy is stupid.

Italy can be stacked to prevent capture, but at a significant cost.  If that cost means that the Axis can’t push all the way to Egypt, that means that the Allies have won the European side of the game.  A big Allied fleet in the western Med with support from bombers can give a huge amount of mobility.  Units can get to almost anywhere except Scandinavia… making it expensive for the Axis to have sufficient units to respond to attacks.  If the Allies can get in a situation where attacks and counterattacks followed by another wave of attacks have a net zero TUV change for both sides, that usually is an Allied victory in the long run.