G1 naval build?

Sorry for asking but doesn’t Italy plays before UK, at least that’s what I remember from reading the rules for 41, so why can’t the Italians sink the brithish fleet at gibraltar?

probably because it wouldn’t be very wise for the italian player to move their fleet away from the cover of the mediterranean

@Ranor:

Sorry for asking but doesn’t Italy plays before UK, at least that’s what I remember from reading the rules for 41, so why can’t the Italians sink the brithish fleet at gibraltar?

Germany->Russia->Japan->UK->Italy->China/USA

OK thx I must have been mistaken.

I used to be a fan of the G1 carrier build, but have kind of gotten away from it.  You’re right; it will help to delay an ally landing, but will also slow your advance to Moscow.  You’ll need to keep dumping IPC’s into the fleet to keep pace with the British.

What about a bomber build on each turn?  By the time UK is ready to land, hit em with the entire squadron.  Yeah, you lose over half your airforce, but now you’ve taken UK back to square one.  All the time prior though, you’ve gotten the use of your bombers for support into the east.

Bombers are only 12 IPC’s now, leaving plenty for precious German armor.  If you spent a couple of bucks on techs somewhere along the way, all the better.  Maybe you even get lucky with Heavy Bombers or Paratroopers!  Or, any surviving bombers can hit UK industry.

If the Italian fleet is off the coast of Egypt the UKs CA and DD cannot attack it anyway. I like to use the German transport to take out Jordan on G1. Then I1 use all resources to hit Egypt. You get 3 bombardments, likely hitting 2. If they miss you are in trouble though. It’s a risk I take because you get the 3 bombardments instead of a G1 attack on Egypt.

I could try a submarine for making dead zones, but a AC it’s too much. Reduces you to 5 land units.

@Flying:

If the Italian fleet is off the coast of Egypt the UKs CA and DD cannot attack it anyway. I like to use the German transport to take out Jordan on G1. Then I1 use all resources to hit Egypt. You get 3 bombardments, likely hitting 2. If they miss you are in trouble though. It’s a risk I take because you get the 3 bombardments instead of a G1 attack on Egypt.

You only get 2 bombardments, you can’t have more bombardments than landing units and since there is only 1 Italian transport that leaves you with at most 2 shots.

@AdamD021:

@Flying:

If the Italian fleet is off the coast of Egypt the UKs CA and DD cannot attack it anyway. I like to use the German transport to take out Jordan on G1. Then I1 use all resources to hit Egypt. You get 3 bombardments, likely hitting 2. If they miss you are in trouble though. It’s a risk I take because you get the 3 bombardments instead of a G1 attack on Egypt.

You only get 2 bombardments, you can’t have more bombardments than landing units and since there is only 1 Italian transport that leaves you with at most 2 shots.

Does this include the 2 infantry from Libya? Honestly I’m not sure now. I figure if you are commiting 3 infantry, 1 tank and 1 fighter that includes 5 units then you can bombard with 3 ships.

From what I understand it only means units coming via transports

@Alair:

You do?

Hum, if I recall, you start with 2 subs off france, plus a cruiser and sub in the baltic.  For airforce you have 3 fighters and 1 bomber.

Then again, it would depend on dice rolling and how things played out, but it’s not my style.

Four fighters and one bomber.  What I wanted to try next time is sending the two subs + 1 fighter(norway) to take out the battle ship + transport in sz 2 send the fighter from poland plus sub from SZ 5 against the destroyer in sz 6 and take your two remaining fighters and bomber send them vs the Cruiser and Destroyer in SZ 12.

Then again we have been playing without NO’s so Germany really needs to buy some time against the Brits.

Okay, with more experience now, if, and that’s a HUGE IF, you decide to build navy on Germany 1, as if someone had a gun to my head and threatened to kill me and I balanced the loss of position on the board to be worth my life, here’s what I would say to build:

31 IPC to spend on Round 1:

2 Aircraft Carriers >> 28 IPC
+4 Already Owned Fighters

This is the only way you’re going to have enough firepower to make that transport last for a few rounds, IMHO.  Otherwise, England and America are going to have enough bombers by round 2 to sink whatever you have in SZ 5.

Thats overboard for Germany. 2 carriers?  I think you will lose if you buy 2 carriers on the first turn, because your not getting the jump on the Soviet-German equation and allowing the Soviets the lead in maintaining the balance of power, because now they will build lots of tanks to go with 39 infantry and Germany does not face a weak Soviet player who cant fight back…. all because adolf went carrier crazy.

Ya might as well build 2 CVs, 1 sure aint gonna cut it.

@Imperious:

Thats overboard for Germany. 2 carriers?  I think you will lose if you buy 2 carriers on the first turn, because your not getting the jump on the Soviet-German equation and allowing the Soviets the lead in maintaining the balance of power, because now they will build lots of tanks to go with 39 infantry and Germany does not face a weak Soviet player who cant fight back…. all because adolf went carrier crazy.

Hence why I said what I said, IF I decided my life was worth losing the game, I would buy the two carriers.

However, short of 2 Carriers, you don’t have a prayer’s chance in hell of keeping your fleet alive without insane luck and/or an opponent who just doesn’t want to kill it.

ok i get you. yes really nothing can be done unless Germany is committed to naval

Unless you build subs. Buy 2, kill the cruiser instead the sub in North Sea attack and you’ll have 3. Send fighters to France and you’ll menace allied fleets. When the dreaded dds approach, make a strafe attack, hoping kill boats with a value greater than 18 (sum of your 3 subs) without losing figs.

I like new sub rules more than I thought first time

The question of a german naval build arises only in the context of the british naval built. The problem is not, that germany has a navy but rather that the UK has none. As pointswise bombers are the most potent naval attack vehicle and can also be deployed at land, I advocate the buildup of a strong bomber force.

Still this requires the commitment of resources germany does not have at the start of game. As IMHO the optimal attack plan is to whipe out the whole royal navy, only sparing the destroyer and transport in front of the american coast (SZ9) there should be no problem - but there is. With only one carrier, one destroyer, one transport and one sub, the UK has a fleet that could start attacking germany directly where with no german fleet built the cruiser and transport have been whiped out.

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built one bomber.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 44333.
The british fleet defence would be 44222 plus 1 additional livepoint.

So in the event of an german attack, the whole! german airforce would be lost, and the brits would still retain their
transports.

This leaves you with only two options (if you at least want to be able to contest the british fleet): Build more aircraft or build more ships.

Now the building of 3! fighters will keep your coasts free of british transports but can you really afford to spend 30 of your 31 IPCs in G1 on aircraft alone? Or are you prefering a two bomber 24 IPC solution, where one! lucky additional british hit in round one could ruin your attack? Still the building of one additional destroyer or two instead of a transport and its load would further reverse the equations.

With the base of only one cruiser (i assume the germans used the sub to kill the destroyer together with one fighter) the germans have a better base than the brit who only starts with one destroyer but who can afford to spend his whole budget on naval units.
This places the german in a peculiar place. Clearly the strategy must be to delay the attack on the german navy until B2 to conserve resources for round 1. Therefore a naval built is needed that is cheap, but that also is enough to repel the bomber and the two fighters and at best also has an attack potential that helps destroying the british fleet in combination with aircraft. That means, germany needs another surface anti-air vessel that helps keep the british aircraft away and probably some submarines - driving the price further up. Now lets test some german builts:

The british strikeforce would therefore consist of 433.
The german fleet defence:
Cruiser, destroyer, 2 subs: 32 and 2 livepoints. (20 IPC)(too weak)
Cruiser, aircraft carrier, 1 sub: 432 and 1 livepoint (20 IPC)(one fighter landed)
Crusier, battleship: 43 and 1 livepoint (20 IPC)(too weak - but might work)
Cruiser, 2 Destroyer, 1 sub: 322 and 1 livepoint. (22 IPC)(too weak - but might work)
Cruiser, 2 Destroyer, 2 subs: 322 and 2 livepoints (28 IPC)(too expensive)

(Only the fighter that attacked seazone 6 together with the submarine can land on the carrier. Other attack pattern will only allow more british ships to survive)

Only the carrier submarine combo or the battleship can survive a british air attack.
Now lets assume the british didnt attack affraid of loosing too many aircraft (although the cruiser battleship combo is still a little bit weak)

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built one carrier and one submarine.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 4333321.
The british fleet defence would be 442221.
Probably one german bomber would survive

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built one battleship.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 443333 plus 1 additional livepoint.
The british fleet defence would be 442221.
Probably the german battleship and one bomber or one bomber and one fighter would survive

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built two destroyers and one submarine.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 43333222.
The british fleet defence would be 442221.
Probably the german bomber and one or two fighters would survive

Under these circumstances attacking the lone battleship / destroyers and sub and building one additonal fighter instead of the sub should be the british course of action. For those who love the risk, the battleship is the best offensive opportunity against the british fleet with least losses in counterattack.
For hardcore gaming I recommend the two destroyers and sub or the carrier sub combo as its weaker on the offence but better on defense. The carrier sub combo ist the real defence monster, but the destroyers and the sub has more offensive potential. The real question is where to draw the line in cost cutting.

Now i will try these builts against the max british fleet defence with no landing force or transports:
UK built: 1 Carrier, 2 destroyers, 2 submarines

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built one carrier and one submarine.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 4333321.
The british fleet defence would be 44222211.
Total whipeout / the lone transport survives

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built one battleship.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 443333 plus 1 additional livepoint.
The british fleet defence would be 44222211.
Total whipeout / the lone transport survives

Now lets assume that germany lost one fighter in G1 and built two destroyers and one submarine.
The german strikeforce would therefore consist of 43333222.
The british fleet defence would be 44222211.
Probably the german bomber would survive

SUMMARY
The german battleship should it survive B1 will totally establish total german dominance over the french coasts at the risk of losing it in B1 whereas the carrier sub combo forces the british to go all out on ships to stop. The two destroyer one sub built is a more expensive but balanced built. Eighter built ist a severe theat to any british ships and will probably force the UK to move its ships away and hide them behind GB for a B2 built preventing B1 landings I also like the 2 sub strategy of Funcionetta as an even cheaper built. Depending on UK airforce further german built of 1 submarine and solid airforce should continue keep the royal navy at bay. - But rotten luck cant be calculated.

And this “livepoint” thing means what?

Is it a senior citizen community perhaps?

And while the Germans are playing with their little rubber ducky boats in the Baltic bathtub the Russians are gearing up for a Berlin bonfire.

Not a situation I would care to pursue.