I’m currently gauging interest in an Anniversary 1941 tournament. If you’d like to participate, let me know in this thread.
Ozy.
British round 1 naval build
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what kind of navy should UK use their 43 ipc on in round 1.
in my playgroup we have many times build:
- 2 battleship to get some hit-soaking ability and some heavy shores.
- 2 carriers + 1 cruiser to get heavy defence with the help from 2 us fighters.
what do you prefer any of the above, or do you use a different approach when goind navy with the UK
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What does Germany usually build G1? Does she put ftrs in Western Europe?
You need to consider how strong of a protection you need UK1 against the German threat and buy accordingly.In other words, I think unless you plan on leaving the protection of the home sea zones (SZ2,3,6,7,8) on UK2, then I would buy the cheapest amount of support vessels while trying to get my transport numbers up to threaten a landing in scandinavian area, karelia, or europe. Reason being is that you can land in Norway UK2 AND add more ships on that turns buy as well. Get the troops into the action as soon as possible.
So is the UK plan to go to africa as soon as possible, or to support Russia through a northern fleet?
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good questions you arise regarding where the uk should strike first. normally i would strik against norway and or finland or perhaps throw some inf into NWE to annoy the germans. BUT, in any case I would clain that any british navy should be stron enough to avoid the germans desciding to throw their airforce against it to “canel each othter out”, as the typical rapid decline i UK income oten makes rebuilding a strong navy near impossible. Thus going for an extra transporter or 2 in round one, might be to risky.
In general my main goal with UKs fleet is to put so much preasure on the germans to give the russians some air and help them gaim their 2 NO.
Does your comments mean that you never or only very rarely go for the capital ships, and how is your perception regarding shorebombardments compared to the investment that is required?
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@Fighter:
Does your comments mean that you never or only very rarely go for the capital ships, and how is your perception regarding shorebombardments compared to the investment that is required?
Capital ships (as you pointed out) are a hefty investment, but are definitely needed. I like cruisers for UK if possible, since they serve two purposes: Fleet defense and offshore capability. Obviously a loaded carrier is the best fleet defense, but don’t neglect some support ships like destroyers or cruisers. I like to have US build the DD’s if possible, to save UK as much money as possible.
My main point was that the capital ship investment should be kept to as little as possible to keep the alliesas efficient as possible putting boots into the action.
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If my BB survives, I like to buy 3 Cruisers and 1 trn. This gives me a complete compliment of shore bombardments for the 2 trns.
If Germany buys any air and/or I lose the BB in Sz 2, I go something like 1 AC, 1 CA, 1 DD, 1 Trn.
If I lost the BB, but Germany didn’t buy air and isn’t in position to threaten I might buy something like
1 AC, 1 CA, 2 Trns.I’ll get any additional Cruisers on the turn I move my UK fleet to Sz 3 or Sz 6, usually turn 2 or 3 depending on Africa situation. If I go the Cruiser route, I like to eventually have 4 for 2 transports worth of bombardment.
I have found that you can never really have too many Allied Capital ships in the Atlantic and it seems better to buy them early rather than later. It is usually pretty easy for Ger to buy an extra ftr/bom here or there and Japan can also get plenty of planes to Europe which gives Ger-Jap a potential 1-2 attack on the UK. Assuming the UK does lose its BB, I think a UK AC and US AC are pretty much mandatory in Rd 1.
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I read you DM on the issue with max possible shores, but have also found that the ability to soak a hit or 3 can have a disencouraging effect on the germans, so perhaps the “truth” is something in between :)
in any case I am very fond of the cheep solution for the british to build AC’s and use US fighters on them to quickly gain a strong defence of capital ships to cover transports. Ideally the british are able to launch 4 full transports at round 3 or maybe even round 2 if the germans lost alot of airplanes
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BBs do also help deter a 1-2 G-J attack since both attacking countries have to go through the free hits of the BBs.
In most cases I usually opt for a DD + CA vs. 1 BB since you still get 1 shore bombardment and get two defensive rolls, but I think an AC + BB + Trn (or DD pending Ger threat) is a solid buy on UK 1 particularly if your other BB surived. I’ll have to try this as an alternate to the 3 CA + trn buy.
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I may be the oddball but the only 2 boats i build if possible are DDs and ACs as the UK. Bombards are overrated and typically unused. If you have 36 IPC you could buy 3 cruisers or 1 loaded carrier, the loaded carrier has better defense, and on the attack if they do not have an AA gun on round 2 will out do the 3 cruisers (when landing troops). They also give you a larger potential threat against the axis capitals than bombards, can mix and match who’s fighters are on them, and if possible (merge two fleets, axis air power goes boom somehow) make a great reinforcements on land. DDs are just the most cost effective defensive ship and why i buy them, but I still prefer the core of the fleet to be carriers.
On UK1, 1 AC, 3 transports, or 2 transports and a DD if I absolutely have to. You can buy more boats on UK2 to reinforce your navy if needed. This gives you a large threat on UK2 vs France, and/or gets troops into northern russia quickly and in bulk.
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…On UK1, 1 AC, 3 transports, or 2 transports and a DD if I absolutely have to. You can buy more boats on UK2 to reinforce your navy if needed…
hey, just came to think about something:
Why do you wanna buy 3 transports in round 1? I only assume that to be nessesary in the case where you loose all your transports in the atlantic, since you will only be albe to move 5 units anyway (4 in London and 1 tank i canada) and you don’t buy any troops to your transport. -
1 inf 1 arm from canada, 43-35 leaves you with 8 ipc left to buy another inf/arm. Depends on what you want to do on UK2 honestly.
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UK 1 you must buy 1 dd and/or 1 cv, the rest depends
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People seem to still be thinking in terms of Revised Bombardment rules.
In AA50, bombardment is really nerfed.no matter what i do with UK, I always buy at least 1 Carrier turn 1 (same with USA)
generally, the UK for me either buys 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport, 1 Fighter, or 1 Carrier, 1 Cruiser, 1 Transport, 1 Destroyer (saves 2 ipcs), or 1 Carrier, 2 Destroyers, 1 Transport, (save 6 or buy a Submarine).
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UK 1 you must buy 1 dd and/or 1 cv, the rest depends
I would say that the dd buy would depend on whether germany has any remaning subs after g1, as the dd can’t help in any way if the axis leaves the UK navy alone.
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Interesting topic (for it goes beyond the obvious).
I just finished a long game as the Axis and the potential to sink the Allied fleet was always on my mind. At one point I did pull it off and sink the British fleet after entering SZ 8. The kicker was the cost benefit of attacking the fleet that made it a no brainer. Fighters are worth 10 while cruisers are worth 12. Going 1 for 1 is a cost benefit. The Allied fleet’s cheapest unit defends the strongest (a fighter at a 4) meaning they will lose their cheapest units last and sacrafice their most expensive units early.
Keep in mind that bombers cost the same as a cruiser while having a higher attack value. The advantage goes to the airforce.
Having a fleet with 2 Cruisers, a battleship, and a carrier (with 2 fighters) is looking to get popped by an airforce that consists of fighters and bombers (assume comparable combat values). Economics demands it (especially if there are 4 juicy transports in tow).
To this end, I think the destroyer (cost of eight) is fantastic as a fighter/bomber eater as it will clearly take the fall for the more expensive ships that need to stay in the fight.
Good Luck!
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I think DM is on the right track here, you need to have a core of your fleet in place early and then add DDs as fodder during the game. Getting caught having to buy expensive ships in mid-game when you should be pumping out land units that land in Europe is a bad idea. Also, you need a mix of high and low strength units. 1 CV+2 fig, 2 CA, 2-3 DDs is a nice fleet to have as UK and not too hard to reach. A CV is, as many have said, mandatory, having your fighters parked in UK is useless. And if you send fighters to Karelia, you should STILL buy a CV and put US or UK fighters on it.
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related to the issue of germanys advantage og trading planes for boats i find the since there is always the luck of the dice issue, battleshipss soaking ability can really scare the hell out of german and potentialy prevent attacks
when playing UK, I see my primary tasks as preventing the UK fleet ever to be sunk. If i should sink in rounds 2-4 or something like that, odds are that UK will never get back into the battle due to lack of ipc at that point. Therefore my goal with the UK is always to get at least 4 capital ships and perhaps 5 if I get to keep my starting battleship. a typical british fleet for me would be 2 carriers fully loaded (2 US fighters) and then 2-3 battleships and a destroyer if sub are a potential treat. Not a big fan of the destroyer when no subs are near even though 8 ipc is okay cheap, i rather wanna pay 4 ipc more for extra dice and shore ability.
alternatively is US is in the mood, 3-4 carriers could be build and US fighters used for the UK to get moving 8 units a round asap. and given this appraoch I would suggest building 2 bombers and 6 land units the round after the fleet is set and then 1 bomber a round and 7 land units until you can bomb the s… out of germany and/or italy
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Interesting topic (for it goes beyond the obvious).
I just finished a long game as the Axis and the potential to sink the Allied fleet was always on my mind. At one point I did pull it off and sink the British fleet after entering SZ 8. The kicker was the cost benefit of attacking the fleet that made it a no brainer. Fighters are worth 10 while cruisers are worth 12. Going 1 for 1 is a cost benefit. The Allied fleet’s cheapest unit defends the strongest (a fighter at a 4) meaning they will lose their cheapest units last and sacrafice their most expensive units early.
Keep in mind that bombers cost the same as a cruiser while having a higher attack value. The advantage goes to the airforce.
Having a fleet with 2 Cruisers, a battleship, and a carrier (with 2 fighters) is looking to get popped by an airforce that consists of fighters and bombers (assume comparable combat values). Economics demands it (especially if there are 4 juicy transports in tow).
To this end, I think the destroyer (cost of 8) is fantastic as a fighter/bomber eater as it will clearly take the fall for the more expensive ships that need to stay in the fight.
Good Luck!
Right. Regardless of Capital ships the UK (or US) needs some DDs to shift the cost differential. With 1 BB and maybe 2 DDs, you are only losing 16 ipcs for 3 hits while Germany would be losing 10 for each ftr. I typically like to have just enough DDs + intial BB hits for the first wave of a potential G attack. So 6 ftrs require 3 Allied DDs. The good thing is you can split the cost of DDs between UK and US, meaning each could supply 1-2. If you buy 1 AC, 1 CA, 1 DD on UK 1 and US follows with 1 AC, 1 DD on US 1, you probably won’t need another DD unless Germany makes a significant investment in more air. In Rd 3 you can have a stacked Sz 6 fleet (additional UK3 buy if needed) and also enough to protect Sz 12 with the US ships.
It is beneficial to have a few US ships with firepower in Sz 6 (prior to moving to sz 5) if the Ita ftr is lingering around Fra. A loaded US AC also gives the US some fighting power up north, even if you only get 1-2 trns up there it still helps and gives you some punch, but it is not enough of an investment to cripple you if you need to start spending in tha Pac or Afr.
I think DM is on the right track here, you need to have a core of your fleet in place early and then add DDs as fodder during the game. Getting caught having to buy expensive ships in mid-game when you should be pumping out land units that land in Europe is a bad idea. Also, you need a mix of high and low strength units. 1 CV+2 fig, 2 CA, 2-3 DDs is a nice fleet to have as UK and not too hard to reach. A CV is, as many have said, mandatory, having your fighters parked in UK is useless. And if you send fighters to Karelia, you should STILL buy a CV and put US or UK fighters on it.
Yes, it is a lot easier to find an extra 8 ipcs to buy a dd mid game then to worry about an AC buy. Plus, if you have enough Capital ships early Germany usually won’t even bother contesting the Atlantic.
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