@panther This is indeed the recommendation I’ve followed. Forgot to mention I’m testing with low luck dice.
Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]
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@Argothair "Well, accurately interpreting comments on the Internet is hard! "
HA! true dat. These are your proposals and you should have the final say once you consider other comments/perspectives. I have no problem with different NO’s having different values, that is the beauty of the construct, it’s flexibility!
Once a better finalized list has been generated, I do want to kick the tires on these NO’s via a game. Probably after Christmas time I should have some time to start that. Not to stray too far off topic, but do you envision these being the only changes to the OOB rules? E.G. No bid needed. Tech off too? (ugh to non-directed tech). Dice average
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@axis_roll Yeah, that sounds good! I should have some free time starting in late January. I’m happy to shut off tech so we can focus on the new NOs. The only new rule I would want to add is Global 40 Balanced Mod-style strategic bombing and interceptors. I would boost the strategic damage of bombers from 1d6 to 1d6+1, and say that they can be intercepted by defending fighters. Each defending fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an attacking plane on a roll of 2 or less. Then, each attacking bomber and each escorting attacking fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an intercepting plane on a roll of 1 or less. Then, all surviving fighters from both sides automatically retreat (or land in place), and you continue on with AAA fire and bombing damage as normal (except that bombing damage is slightly increased to 1d6+1).
The reason I like those rules is that right now, strategic bombing in Anniversary is sort of just a bunch of luck; there’s not much point to it. Yes, in rare circumstances you can use it to project power to, e.g., trade Japanese resources for Russian resources, or to shut down Italy’s economy in preparation for an Italian invasion – but there’s no nuance or tactics to it; you just get your bombers in range and then pound away and hope to get lucky. With the BM interceptor rules, strategic bombing becomes noticeably profitable when capitals are undefended, and noticeably unprofitable when capitals have fat stacks of fighters defending them – so there’s an interesting dance where you can try to fork enemy factories so that the defending fighters can’t be everywhere at once, or create opportunity costs where fighters are needed as both interceptors and for ground defense in another territory that doesn’t have a factory…it just gets more interesting. It might also soak up a bit of the extra income that these NOs are throwing into the pot, either for bombers, or for fighters, or for repairing strategic damage.
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Update: second draft posted at the top of the thread based on everyone’s comments. Thank you for commenting!
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I like the 3 icps for most NOs. Keeps things more under control. So nothing as far as Azores being involved ?
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@SS-GEN Thanks! Not sure if you’re joking, but the Azores don’t show up on the Anniversary map. The closest I can get is the US’s South Atlantic sea zones NO.
https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/axis-allies-anniversary-3.jpg
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Ok. No joke. Thought it was on map. Been years since I looked at map. Just was a big airport for allies.
Good luck with your testing. -
@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
The only new rule I would want to add is Global 40 Balanced Mod-style strategic bombing and interceptors. I would boost the strategic damage of bombers from 1d6 to 1d6+1, and say that they can be intercepted by defending fighters. Each defending fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an attacking plane on a roll of 2 or less. Then, each attacking bomber and each escorting attacking fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an intercepting plane on a roll of 1 or less. Then, all surviving fighters from both sides automatically retreat (or land in place), and you continue on with AAA fire and bombing damage as normal (except that bombing damage is slightly increased to 1d6+1).
Not familiar with this particular mod, so couple of questions:
Do defending ftrs have to intercept? In other words, they can decide to not go up to avoid the risk of being lost.
Does the AAA flak only shoot at remaining bombers, not fighters?
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So @Argothair, this is the list we’re using to game play test?
GERMANY
Scandinavian Iron – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Norway, Finland, and NW Europe
Eurasian Wheat – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Karelia, Ukraine, Caucasus
Archangel-Astrakhan Line – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Archangel, Moscow, and Kazakh
RUSSIANorthern Lend-Lease – 3 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Archangel with no Axis ships in SZ 3 or 4
Southern Lend-Lease – 3 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Persia & Caucasus w/ no Axis ships in SZ 34
Eastern Lend-Lease – 3 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control SFE & Yakutsk w/ no Axis ships in SZ 63
JAPANChinese Coastline – 3 IPCs if Axis control Manchuria, Kiangsu, Fukien, Kwantung, and French Indochina
Chinese Hegemony – 3 IPCs if Axis control literally all Chinese territories
Bornese Oil – 3 IPCs if Axis control Borneo and no Allied warships anywhere in SZ 49, 50, 60, 61, or 62
Javanese Rubber – 3 IPCs if Axis control East Indies and no Allied warships anywhere in SZ 38, 49, 50, 60, 61, or 62
Central Pacific Islands – 3 IPCs if Axis control 4+ of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Midway, Wake, Carolines, Hawaii
Co-Prosperity Sphere – 3 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of India, Australia, Hawaii, Yakut SSR
UKNorth Atlantic – 3 IPCs if Allies control E. Canada, Greenland, and Iceland with no Axis ships in SZs 1 through 9.
Mediterranean Route – 3 IPCs if Allies control Gibraltar and Egypt with no Axis warships in SZ 13, 14, or 15.
Soft Underbelly – 3 IPCs if UK has at least one land unit in Italy and/or the Balkans.
Indian Empire – 3 IPCs if Allies control India, Madagascar, and South Africa with no Axis ships in SZs 28 through 35.
ANZAC – 3 IPCs if Allies control Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, and the Solomon Islands.
ITALYVichy Collaboration – 3 IPCs if Axis control France, Morocco, and Libya
Mare Nostrum – 3 IPCs if there are no Allied ships in SZ 13, 14, or 15
Abyssinian Adventure – 3 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of Sudan, Italian East Africa, Rhodesia
Mideastern Oil – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Persia, Caucasus
USAArsenal of Democracy – 5 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Western US, Central US, and Eastern US
Manifest Destiny – 5 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Mexico, Panama, Hawaii, and Alaska
South Atlantic – 2 IPCs if Allies control West Indies and Brazil with no Axis warships in SZ 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, or 19
Operation Torch – 3 IPCs if USA has land units in both Morocco and Libya
Operation Overlord – 5 IPCs if USA has land units both NW Europe and France
Central Pacific Islands – 3 IPCs if Allies control 4+ of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Midway, Wake, Carolines, Hawaii
Alcor Aluminum – 2 IPCs if Allies control Australia, Solomon Islands, Hawaii, and Western US
MacArthur was a Donkey – 5 IPCs if Allies control the Philippines
West Pacific Airstrips – 5 IPCs if Allies control 3+ of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Formosa, Manchuria, Buryatia
CHINABurma Road – +1 Chinese artillery for any Chinese-owned territory if Allies control India, Burma, and Yunnan
** Setup Change – Sikang starts the game with 1 infantry, 1 fighter. Yunnan starts with (only) 2 infantry.
** Rules Change – Chinese troops may move into Burma, French Indochina, and/or Kwangtung.(Plus the interceptor mod you suggested, no tech)
If so, do you have a side you prefer to play? I will go with either one. One last question… Low Luck or pure luck for battle outcome?
Once we decide these, then I can start to strategize more seriously and then we can arrange a date to start.
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what (if any) is the difference between a warship and a ship? There’s several references to both in these.
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@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
what (if any) is the difference between a warship and a ship? There’s several references to both in these.
I don’t know if Axis Roll’s list makes the following distinction or not, but in my mind “ship” is the overall term meaning all ships of all types. This overall designation can then be broken down into two broad groups: combat vessels (i.e warships, meaning vessels whose primary mission is to fight and whose primary “payload” are their weapons) and non-combat vessels. In A&A terms, there’s only one type of non-combat vessel: the naval transport. Everything else is a combat vessel, i.e. a warship. These warships can be further divided, if required, into three categories: surface-combat vessels (battleships, cruisers and destroyers), submarines (whose defining ability is their ability to operate under the surface, and which therefore are underwater weapon platforms), and aircraft carriers (whose defining ability is to deploy and recover aircraft, and therefore whose primary “payload” consists of surface-to-air and air-to-air weapons, meaning bombers and fighters).
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@CWO-Marc said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
what (if any) is the difference between a warship and a ship? There’s several references to both in these.
I don’t know if Axis Roll’s list makes the following distinction or not, […] whose primary “payload” consists of surface-to-air and air-to-air weapons, meaning bombers and fighters).
Actually, I meant to say air-to-surface, not surface-to-air, and I think it’s actually Argothair’s list rather than Axis Roll’s. I couldn’t figure out how to edit my original post.
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@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
Do defending ftrs have to intercept? In other words, they can decide to not go up to avoid the risk of being lost.
Does the AAA flak only shoot at remaining bombers, not fighters?Nope, defending fighters are not required to intercept; that’s part of where the strategy comes in – it’s your choice whether to try to protect the factory or protect the fighters.
Yes, AAA flak only shoots at remaining bombers; the escorting fighters are assumed to be operating at extreme range, and therefore they begin returning home immediately after protecting the bombers from enemy interceptors (if any), and do not stick around to hover over the factory, so escorting fighters never interact with ground-based flak.
what (if any) is the difference between a warship and a ship? There’s several references to both in these.
In my personal vocabulary, I consistently use the following definitions:
“Ship” includes TT, SS, DD, CA, CV, BB.
“Warship” includes only SS, DD, CA, CV, BB.
“Surface ship” includes only TT, DD, CA, CV, BB.
“Surface warship” includes only DD, CA, CV, BB.That said, for this variant’s NOs it is not very important to distinguish between different kinds of ships, so if you want to just say that the list is always “warship” for simplicity, that’s fine with me.
If so, do you have a side you prefer to play? I will go with either one. One last question… Low Luck or pure luck for battle outcome?
Once we decide these, then I can start to strategize more seriously and then we can arrange a date to start.
Nope, I’m happy to play either side! I cut the cake, so you get to pick your slice. :-)
I have a mild preference for low luck and no tech allowed so that we can more quickly arrive at a sense of where the game is unbalanced, but I certainly don’t insist on it. We can use a slightly tweaked version of your rules for low luck bombing, too – just add +1 to the damage table.So @Argothair, this is the list we’re using to game play test?
Yes, I’ve been keeping the list at the front of the thread current. This is version 2.1; I had to nerf the Russian NOs heavilyi and nerf the UK NOs slightly after a live playtest with my buddy Corpo24.
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@Argothair @axis_roll you guys are gonna post the game to a thread, right? 0.o
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@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
In my personal vocabulary, I consistently use the following definitions:
“Ship” includes TT, SS, DD, CA, CV, BB.
“Warship” includes only SS, DD, CA, CV, BB.That said, for this variant’s NOs it is not very important to distinguish between different kinds of ships, so if you want to just say that the list is always “warship” for simplicity, that’s fine with me.
Therefor we can replace any reference to ‘ship’ with ‘warship’. Basically, transports don’t count
I guess this means subs are a little more important since they do have the capability to negate several National Objectives: Every Russian, 2 Japanese, 3 UK, 1 Italian and 1 AmericanI’m happy to play either side! I cut the cake, so you get to pick your slice. :-)
OK, as my moniker implies, axis_roll !
So I will take the bad guys…I have a mild preference for low luck and no tech allowed so that we can more quickly arrive at a sense of where the game is unbalanced, but I certainly don’t insist on it. We can use a slightly tweaked version of your rules for low luck bombing, too – just add +1 to the damage table.
Yes, we’ll need to agree on that chart. I believe it was
Chicago Rules
1D6 = Damage
1 = 1
2,3 = 2
4,5 = 3
6 = 4This game
1D6 = Damage
1 = 2
2,3 = 3
4,5 = 4
6 = 5 -
@vodot said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
@Argothair @axis_roll you guys are gonna post the game to a thread, right? 0.o
What Argothair and I have done in the past was exchange emails with combat moves, used the A&A dice roll calculator to conduct battles (this emails roll results to players), then email/exchange battlemap files representing a countries end of turn position. We used/exchanged a spreadsheet for IPC tracking as well.
Not sure how we’ll do it going for this game. Argothair?
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@axis_roll Yes, that sounds good to me – but I’m flattered, @vodot, and I’ll be happy to post a screenshot and summary every couple of full rounds to the forum so you can follow along.
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Oh, and @axis_roll? Start when you like! It’s Germany’s turn; you have my email. :-)
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@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:
Oh, and @axis_roll? Start when you like! It’s Germany’s turn; you have my email. :-)
Wanted to run these by another member of our playing group first, just to ensure there is nothing too glaring (besides the Axis opportunities I see :dark_sunglasses: )
Then the Blitzkrieg will begin!
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I forgot one more question. The black sea is open, correct?
The Dardenelles is not closed. True? -
Oh, that’s interesting. I’m used to closing them, but I think leaving them open adds more options in an interesting way, and so far in our two playtests the Allies have had an advantage, so let’s leave them open! The Caucasus are such an important NO center; it’s important that the Axis have a realistic path to strike at them.
But in that case let’s add SZ 17 (the Black Sea) to the NOs that have to be free of enemy warships in order to collect the NOs for Mare Nostrum (Italy) and Mediterranean Shipping Routes (UK).
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