If everyone wants to be strictly historical, then it should be allowed. You guys don’t realize how massive the pacific really is, and how big those zeasones are. Distance from california to hawaii is more than the distance between lisbon and moscow. The distance between hawaii and wake is the same distance as california to hawaii. The combined distance there is over 8000 KM. that is 1/5th of the circimreference of the earth. California to wake is simliar to New york to kiev. There is no historic sense to denying the japanese fleet to pass that area. In fact, most of the area you are talking about is high seas. US would have no legal jurisdiction to do any thing, and would not do anything about it.
So if you are to make it to scale, it should be 10 seazones between us and hawaii. The seazone of hawaii is probably bigger than all of western europe combined. There is no way US would enforce against a fleet that was 500 miles away. And, it is very unhistoric that US would block the japanese fleet from traveling between hawaii and califorina.
The distances are so huge, that the US would not know the japanese where even there. And that can be confirmed in history.
I agree and your forgetting a small detail.
How will you find a fleet in such a vast area to begin with.
Sure you can have a will and the power to enforce this but you cannot attack something you cannot find.
With Math and eliminating certain critereas.
Everything a man creates can be destroyed!
Everything a man hides can be found!
Lol nice in theory, now try finding a moving fleet in such a large area within a specific timeframe and you will fail plain and simple.
During the coral sea battle the fleets where only 400km apart and could not locate eachother. Now imagine fleets being 2000km apart with the average range of scout planes of 500km and well you are not going to find said fleet ever.
With regard to Pearl Harbor, the critical factor regarding the incoming attack wasn’t the Japanese carrier task force, it was the Japanese aircraft that they had launched against Hawaii (360 overall, with about half in the first wave)…and they were picked up by American radar as they approached. This early warning was fumbled for various reasons (fundamentally, because the American military had never established a rigourous system of accounting for the traffic in the airspace over Hawaii, something that could have been done fairly easily with the proper initiative and some modest staff resources), but if it hadn’t been fumbled it might have given the Americans some time to start going on the alert before the bombs started falling. And if so many of the American military planes at Hawaii hadn’t been demolished during the attack, this could have created an opportunity for the Americans to hit back: tracking the Japanese planes by radar on their way back to their carrriers would have told the Americans on what bearing the Japanese task force was relative to Hawaii (although not at what range…but even then, they could have estimated a probable maximum from what they knew about the range of the Japanese planes on a two-way trip, or even from what they knew about the range of the US Navy’s own planes, which was probably roughly similar).
Sea Planes please ! :wink:
@SS:
Sea Planes please ! :wink:
I’m not quite sure I understand. If you mean “naval aviation”, as opposed to what was then called the US Army Air Corps, I did refer to the US Navy’s own planes at one point. If you’re referring to seaplanes like the PBY Catalina, they would have been handy to scout out the location of the Japanese fleet, though of course vulnerable to attack by the fleet’s combat air patrol.
I realize how big the Pacific is and how large the sea zones are. I’m not navigating the high seas I’m playing Axis and Allies. If I’m the American player and you are the Japanese player and you move your fleet to Hawaii I can see that perfectly. Chances are that I’m not going to buy your excuse that you had way too much ham and you’re just stopping into Honolulu to pick up some pineapple on your way to China with fully loaded transports. There’s no way that you can spin this to make it acceptable. It’s a goofy rule plain and simple. Larry crapped the bed on this one.
@CWO:
@SS:
Sea Planes please ! :wink:
I’m not quite sure I understand. If you mean “naval aviation”, as opposed to what was then called the US Army Air Corps, I did refer to the US Navy’s own planes at one point. If you’re referring to seaplanes like the PBY Catalina, they would have been handy to scout out the location of the Japanese fleet, though of course vulnerable to attack by the fleet’s combat air patrol.
Yes finding the Japanese fleet’s.
If I’m the American player and you are the Japanese player and you move your fleet to Hawaii I can see that perfectly.
You continue to ignore the fact the SZ 26 =/= Hawaii!
Maybe if you had focused on debating your point instead of ridiculing and insulting people who disagree with you you’d be a better listener?
That sea zone is more than 25% as wide as the entire distance between USA and Japan. That makes it about 1500 miles across. Loaded transports 750 West of Hawaii are sufficiently hostile enough for a US DOW.
Basically you’ve invented an interpretation of the board where SZ 26 encompasses just PH, and now are are complaining that your (unfounded) interpretation makes one of the rules look bad.
Haha, GHG.
If I am playing axis and allies, and I am us, I will see that japan is going to declear war on me, so I declear on turn 1 with the US. I am also going to upgrade my factories and collect my NOs, because larry didn’t make the rules in the way I want to play.
^^ this is exactly how you come accross.
Haha, GHG.
Yeah, that was quite the pivot. All along it’s been about what the actual US would have done in 1940.
That argument falls apart, so the goal posts get moved and we should actually look at SZ 26 from the perspective of an A&A player instead of its historic context.
Yeah, in A&A the American player knows that Japan is their enemy and is eager to get involved in the war. That’s exactly why we have restrictive political rules.
Apparently, the correct answer has to come from so many voices and directions before you listen that you just couldn’t resolve a rules argument in real time (without quitting the game in disgust).
Shoot the messenger, discuss history, dissemble, it doesn’t matter.
I don’t read the rules that carefully, either. I’d already played 4 versions of the game before I bought Global, so it was easy to extrapolate from there, but not the details.
This caused plenty of slop and corrections, and many of them came from my partner, who I “taught” to play the game. More came from playing other strong players and champions at conventions and on the forums. None of that makes me sad or hurt, because everyone makes mistakes.
Now, when I make a mistake and put pieces in the wrong place, or mis-see what’s going on, or misunderstand the rules (now rare, because of the forum discussions, but it happens.) most of the time,
I don’t ask for a pass or take-backs, I just let them destroy me, even if it costs me the game. I’d rather admit I made a mistake, and know that I cost myself a significant advantage … and that it happens to everyone.
Wise words, Taamvan.
It doesn’t matter whether you’re the Americans, the Japanese, or the top hat from a game of Monopoly, this rule still doesn’t make any sense. Keep trying to spin it all you want, I still won’t believe in nonsense. I will play by the rules even if they should have been thought out a little better than this one was.
Let’s hope the Chinese Navy doesn’t show up on America’s doorstep some day with a BS excuse.
Let’s hope the Chinese Navy doesn’t show up on America’s doorstep some day with a BS excuse.
The Chinese Navy isn’t really that big… but I guess by Canadian standards, it is…
Haha. By Canadian standards the Rhode Island Navy is big.
Haha. By Canadian standards the Rhode Island Navy is big.
Wyoming’s army is huge then based on your standards
Haha. By Canadian standards the Rhode Island Navy is big.
Wait… when did Rhode Island get a Navy? :?
Back on topic, I bet Canada thinks the Swiss Navy is pretty big…
Our army knives are bigger than their army knives though. Waaay bigger.
