G40 Redesign (currently taking suggestions)

[Black_Elk]

Also a definite thanks to Larry, and everyone who helped to create and maintain this game/community over the years. All who participated in the alphas to shape the 1940 game. Which is clearly glorious
:-D

So just as an example of how this thing can be used.

Once you download and unzip the file Barney linked above, you add the folder called Global_40_House_Rules and the file called Tech for Strategic Bomber G40 to your downloadedmaps folder in TripleA (the same place where any downloaded map files end up.)

After you launch the game, you’ll see a couple prompts explaining the gist.

On the first turn “Changer” you can add any HR techs you want for that game. Some techs (13 at this point) must be activated/given to the nation called Changer if you want to use them. All the rest can be activated/added by Germany. All the add unit techs can be added to Germany on the Changers turn, and they will show up on Germany’s purchase screen for the first turn.

Below I will post two examples of how this system can be used to create an HR mod on the fly simply by creating a savegame after the tech adds are finished.

The first is very complex, it includes almost every HR option available…

The second adds just a couple HRs…

[Black_Elk]

This gamesave below has every tech add HR, except for those labelled givetoall. You can see from the screen that the purchase options on Germany’s first turn are pretty intense. It shows almost every unit in the gamefile (with the exception of a few that need to be added to each nation in order to function properly.)

The whole process took me about 15 minutes. But now I have a save that uses many of the HRs we’ve discussed at various points in this thread (and a few more on top of those.) In case anyone wants to check it out…

G40 HR every tech except GivetoAll.tsvg

[barney]

just to clarify the tech doc in the zip is for information purposes only. The map folder is all that needs to go in your “downloaded maps” folder.

[baron Münchhausen]

It feels like Christmas with plenty of new toys to play with.
Even the almost Classic TP A0 D1 M2-3 C8 is pretty attractive, simply to see how it impacts usual set-up and first turns.
With DD A1 D1 C5, it provides a near similar odds to OOB opening:  D2, 2 hits vs 2 Subs A2 but first strike now.

I wonder if KNP or Der Kuenstler will chime in to try.

On background map, above and below you can see distinctive stars for VCs: Szechwan, Norway and Ploesti VCs in Romania.

[Black_Elk]

Thanks Barney I was curious about that myself.
So just the folder to your map downloads, which then shows up in the list of tripleA game maps as “Global 40 House Rules”

Ok just to give another example, the gamesave below shows a different kind of HR preset…
This mod uses only three HRs. The Military Base unit. The c5 defensless strategic bomber. And the additional VTs with the +1 bonus at collect income.

You can see from Germany’s purchase screen that the roster here is much more limited. It includes only one new unit, one unit change, and the game is otherwise OOB just with new Victory Territories (generic income bonus +1 control.)

ps. for those who don’t use tripleA, bear with me, we just wanted to show the sort of things that can be done currently with the toggles. There are some other ideas, discussed before in this thread, which can also be achieved via the edit mode, but which require the player to do more things to set up. Examples would be things like changing territory ownership to create a commonwealth faction on the fly (edit add territory to Anzac or UKE, and then edit change the starting cash of each.) Another example would be using a starting unit set up change, such as adding a base somewhere (or maybe removing one) or doing the same with combat units. You can essentially reset the board however you want with the edit mode.

G40 HR c5 Bomber with VCs and Military Bases.tsvg

[Black_Elk]

Here is yet another example.

In this gamesave, every HR that says “GivetoAll” has been given to each nation…

It is still saved on the Changers turn, so you can edit “remove tech” for any “give to all” HR you don’t wish to use. Any of the remaining regular tech HRs can be added to the Changer or Germany to build out a different sort of pre-set save.

So for example, right now the save has Elites, Air Transports, Cruisers/Transports at M3, the Strategic Bomber at A3, and dog-fighting with escort/intercepts at 2/2 and nothing else. Not that any of these are necessarily better than others, but you can see from the purchase screen below what it looks like if you only wanted to used these changes and no others. Right now many HR features are focused on the unit roster, so it is intended to be as adaptive as possible.

G40 HR every GivetoAll HR.tsvg

[Black_Elk]

And finally here is an example showing literally every tech add HR already in place. It is saved at the changers turn.

You may notice that if some techs supersede each other, so the “give to all” tech that makes the OOB strat bomber attack at 3, is superseded by the changer tech that makes all bombers c5 defenseless. Things like that.

But basically using a file like this it is also possible to edit out some the stuff you don’t want, which may actually be faster than adding it all in one by one in some cases (a process which took me just shy of 20 minutes haha) depending on how elaborate you want to make the HR settings.

You can see a purchase screen below on the Russian turn, with the full roster currently available. Some units have optional price changes, which are denoted by C =cost and then whatever that value is for the new unit.

For my own taste this is way more units than I would likely use in a game, but it just shows what is on offer. Hopefully as more time is spent with the HR package more functionality can be added, with new HRs or HR features in the edit mode.

Perhaps such as editing territory values on the fly, or creating new player nations on the fly, changing political affiliations on the fly and things of that sort. But for right now there is still a lot of cool stuff here to mess around with.
:-D

G40 HR ALL TECH.tsvg

[simon33]

Can I ask why the XML has different units for each faction, e.g. “Russian_infantry”? Why not just “infantry”?

[Black_Elk]

No clue. Probably an oversight. There are more units in the package than are actually utilized too, perhaps relics from whatever older aggregate image file collections were available. Maybe barney was just hitting it hard and fast, trying to bang out the proof of concept, or trying to hang onto the older materials?

Would be easy enough to rename the pngs, probably take me a day to get that done.

Another thing that I’d like would be to use the medium size flag graphics instead of the small ones for Convoy and Blockade, as the little ones are a bit tough to see.

I could clean up the VC centers a bit too, so all the V’s display in locations that make sense either for political capitals or regions that make the most sense for the VT.

Probably still a working draft, but good to have more eyes on it. I was so overwhelmed by the sheer scale of what Barney knocked out I didn’t even notice the national naming convention for those units, probably because I only see it for some nations (and G wasn’t one of them haha.) But yeah, makes sense to me. Little more spit and polish

[General 6 Stars]

I think this is awesome that you guys are getting this to work out. Your getting a bit closer to 39 rules. Now add the Vichy, Pro Minors (B_E), Pro Neutrals ( you do have a few Victory City’s on these) and Strict Neutrals and now you got 39. Ha Ha LOL.

Anyway I new this day was coming where the G40 needed to be spiced up after the game was played many times. As we now YG started that and some of the other members here on site. Even IL is working on his 40 game. You have the option of many people play testing this which is crucial.
As we all know after a test game there will be needed tweaks to game.

Good Luck with this and I’ll be following this and looking to see what you come up with for victory conditions. I believe you are still using the G40 = 40 victory city’s.
I’m trying the victory points condition in my 40 game do to Moscow and Calcutta always falling. Changing that so Axis can still win without taking those city’s.

Awesome work !  :wink: :wink: :wink: :wink:

[Argothair]

So who wants to do some playtesting? I’m down for playing by email or by forum! :-)

Pretty flexible about which options to enable, although I am really excited about the new subs / DDs, the Canada player, and the new minor factory / base rules.

[baron Münchhausen]

@Baron:

@elgato610:

America-  Marines- Cost 5, attack 1, but 1 can be carried on a destroyer and can be supported by DD’s Cruisers and BBs for the duration of an amphibious landing. This raises the attack to 2

Considering BBs and Cruisers as artillery support for Marines is interesting.
It makes me think about a way to use on tabletop with no additional pieces.

BBs can transport a regular infantry unit, but have no shorebombardment.
However, it provides a +1A support bonus as Artillery.
Cruiser can load a regular infantry but have no shorebombardment and no artillery support on amphibious landing.

This thread makes me think about a simpler way to play tabletop with Marines kind of unit.
Use Infantry unit, and allows to load 1 on Battleship. During amphibious landing, BB cannot shot a shorebombardment.
However, it gives a +1A bonus to its “Marines” being offload.

No need for an additional unit sculpt.
Still very similar to what is in Triple A Redesign.

@Baron:

@elgato610:

The idea for the marines is simply to allow a historical element into the game and vary the game play a bit.  The ability of the USN to coordinate, execute and support amphibious operations over long distances was a one of the crucial factors in the Pacific war.  No other nation was able to execute this type of planning to the extent the allies did and the role of amphibious landings and the technology employed was perfected by the USN/USMC.  The idea of the marine is to bring some of this advantage into the game play and and the same time make the cruiser and BB more versatile.

If you want to try a different Marines unit which is not an Infantry, your thread made me think about this:

Marines
Attack 1-2
Defense 1
Move 1
Cost 3
Get +1A on amphibious landing.
Can load 1 on Cruiser or Battleship, or 2 on a Transport
Cruiser or Battleship forfeit their offshore bombardment when unloading Marines.

That way, 2 Marines remains a 1 IPC cheaper option than 1 Infantry and 1 Artillery 7 IPCs to get same attack factor of A2+A2.
Also, you may consider that 1 Marines unloaded from Cruiser and Battleship is using warship guns as a kind of combined arms to reach A2 combat while on TP you may consider that they carry landing crafts of all kinds to make a better shorelanding.

That way 1 Tank A3 and 1 Marines A2 make the optimal unloading for amphibious assault A5 (9 IPCs). Neither 1 Inf+1Art A4, 7 IPCs or 1 Inf+1Tank A4, 9 IPCs beats this combination.

If you don’t want to add more unit type on the board.

You can also consider this possibility for Cruiser and Battleship:
Cruiser
Attack 3
Defense 3
Move 2-3
Cost 12
Shorebombardment 3 OR
Loading/offloading  1 Infantry unit.

Battleship
Attack 4
Defense 4
Move 2-3
Hits 2
Cost 20
Shorebombardment 4 OR
Loading/offloading  1 Infantry unit,
gives +1A support to Infantry being offloaded if no naval combat done in SZ.

[baron Münchhausen]

@Argothair:

So who wants to do some playtesting? I’m down for playing by email or by forum! :-)

Pretty flexible about which options to enable, although I am really excited about the new subs / DDs, the Canada player, and the new minor factory / base rules.

If only I have enough time on my hands…  :cry:

What do you think about TP A0 D1 M2-3 C8 ?

Combined with new DD A1 D1 C5 and Subs being hit by planes (without DD) but unblocked and always surprise strike on, it simplify a lot of interactions with planes and other naval units. A lot less of special rules, which is very beneficial from tabletop perspective.

Also, it fits better, historically speaking, in G40 to have troop transports with minimal defense factor. Merchant ships are figured by Convoy Disruption SZs.
All Transport units are military on this board.
And it seems all Allies take very seriously to guard them from Subs in every circumstances. There was no risk to take about loosing a whole division from a few torpedoes.

Also, even a TP at 8 IPCs use as a blocker unit, is clearly a sub-optimal strategy when you have a much better 5 IPCs unit with an Anti-Sub strike first.

And, unless there is a whole bunch of Cruiser, Carrier and Battleship, TPs will usually not be taken as first casuaties.

And as a proof of concept in an AA50 inspired game with no DD A1 D1 C5 but regular DD A2 D2 C8:
@Der:

[Black_Elk]

Thanks SS!

I know my hope here would be that we can get more and more stuff included as time goes on, and especially if we can pick up a code wizard to help create/integrate more complex HRs.

I really like the template here though, since it allows an easy way to formalize HR ideas, test them out, then change things as needed. And it’s easy to to try alternatives without requiring a full rewrite at every step, since you can leave older concepts in place (just switched off) even as we try new stuff.

I’d love to get to the point where this system can handle all the ideas that have been proposed at various points by yourself, DK, IL, YG and others, for integrated rulesets already in use on the table top. Even the dream of a game like 36-39 seems somehow more in reach.

I think we have a lot of materials right now that showcase expanded roster options. We didn’t get to everything, and I’m still really interested in HR features for the map. Things like rail hubs, or political toggles, victory tables etc. Map features like universal scramble, or TTs that can be bombed based on printed production value (instead of just factories) things of that sort. But at least it’s a foundation to start building on.

When I get home from work tonight, I’ll have a look at some of the stuff I mentioned earlier. Barney did a ton of heavy lifting, and my skills aren’t at that level, but I’m happy to crack into a little tedium here and polish things up now that the basic xml is drafted and seems to be working.

Was thinking to redo some centers tonight. Maybe we can get Newfoundland displaying properly with a workaround? And a few of the new VT stars. Probably have a look at OOB centers for those while I’m at it too. Editing the xml may take a little longer for Russian_Infantry and the like, but that should be pretty straight forward. Barney cleared a path, and it’s way easier one you have something in place.

For sure Arg! I’m game to test some settings!

Wonder if it might be cool to grab the pre-release and try pbf at the war club. I’m excited.
Anyhow, back to the grind for a few, but will catch you guys in a few!

[barney]

@simon33:

Can I ask why the XML has different units for each faction, e.g. “Russian_infantry”? Why not just “infantry”?

It’s so the “Sphere of Influence” will work. Germany and Italy are allied and so are the western allies so they don’t need to be separate. Probably eventually give everybody their own dudes. It makes things much more flexible. Especially if you only want certain countries to have certain techs

[barney]

I guess if you really wanted you could have Russia and Japans roster stay the same and then when “Sphere” is on switch to the nation specific roster. Wouldn’t be that hard to do

[Black_Elk]

Aha that makes sense! Nice

Given that I didn’t even notice until Simon mentioned it, I think it’s probably fine for now. If it’s only for sphere of influence we could clean it up I guess with a switcher like you mentioned.

For now I was just playing around with the VC centers, and convoy/blockade flags. I think the medium flags definitely look better at 100% zoom. Though many players probably zoom out to 75% or somewhere around there. In which case you see a tiny bit of clipping on the edges, but I think it still looks a bit easier to read at a glance.

[barney]

yea i wish they had one between small and medium. I left the info off because that really clutters things. You’ll need to add a convoy flag for canada. I moved all the VCs around but some there’s just not much room. The convoys could probably be moved around a little more for the medium flags

[Black_Elk]

If you want I could make some flags. In the past in order to resize roundels I usually had to crop a new exterior circle at the desired size, since they never resize properly amd the circle always just morphs when shrinking them haha. Might take a little bit, but at least we’d have something between Medium and Tiny.

I thought medium looked pretty decent though

[barney]

yea just checked it out. medium looks pretty good. Would be kinda nice to have though. Never know where they might come in handy. But yea I wouldn’t make it a priorority or anything.