yes, or perhaps a cutoff for damage control…maybe cap it at 3 claims or something like that? i mean, it took a lot of claims before he finally dropped to tier 2…that just shows how solid his tier 1 status was.
@alexgreat:
In any case, Axis-Dominion, I also think it should be handled differently when someone goes out like Pherman. His status should be frozen, not changed as a result of all those default losses. You have to assume he is tier 1, thats what he reached with his games, that should be used.
If you win like I did today, give me his tier 1 points (sorry, subjective in this case).
If you have won games / lost games, like Axis had, dont adjust those games in a ngeative way for Axis. His total points vs Pherman should stand.
Here’s my suggestion: games that were not announced as losses by the loser (which would include anyone who simply disappeared, of course) go into arbitration. We’d have a panel of judges who take a vote on the likely winner, and points are awarded based on that. In a lot of cases, it probably wouldn’t be clear who might win, and those games simply don’t count as wins or losses.
@Shin:
Here’s my suggestion: games that were not announced as losses by the loser (which would include anyone who simply disappeared, of course) go into arbitration. We’d have a panel of judges who take a vote on the likely winner, and points are awarded based on that. In a lot of cases, it probably wouldn’t be clear who might win, and those games simply don’t count as wins or losses.
Totally against panels and such. Also against quotas. When someone leaves, then his last active status is what determines everything after. You cannot, even potentially, punish someone who might have won due to luck, erros etc, even if the game was judged leaning in favor of the other player.
if you are a top player who has played only a handful of other top players (like Juan, who has purposely kept his league games very low and instead plays a lot more outside of the league)
perhaps this is the answer for those of us that aspire to stand atop the league rankings? There certainly isn’t anything wrong with being selective in League games while playing lots of games in the other thread, not that I do this but it would solve part of this issue.
The other issue, game abandonment, is a bit more difficult. Perhaps, to be fair, alex’s idea should be considered? Imo it seems reasonable but this is really Gamerman’s call !
hmm, let’s see…before pherman ever showed up, i was a tier E. then he comes along and it’s pretty clear from having played him 3 times that he is at least a tier 1, if not an E himself. he drops out with a bunch of games hanging, and now as a result i have lost my E status. this was just not handled properly. anyone who has played him, or seen his play, will readily attest that he is certainly not a tier 2. what we are seeing in the rankings is not a correction, as you say, but rather a corruption.
there definitely needs to be a better way to handle situations like this. i have worked very hard all season to reach that status, having now 50 games under my belt with many, many wins, and yet something way beyond my control took place and BAM, just like that, i get knocked back down.
this has been a big turn off for me.
I completely disagree. As I made the corrections last night, it was becoming obvious that your tier E status was in serious jeopardy. Yes, Pherman dropping from his rage quit was a factor, but it is not as it appears.
I’ll tell you one solution. Everybody didn’t have to claim wins over him by forfeit. Now maybe it was appropriate in every case here, in my opinion it depends on how long the game has gone and how it was going, but in my opinion, if it was anybody’s game, I myself would not claim the win. So you have all the buzzards to thank too.
You’re not going to like this, and I’m not going to take the time to give you a complete answer, but I think your stay in tier E was tenuous. Yes you have a lot of wins, and a whole lot of them are against weak opponents. How many wins do you have against other tier E’s? ONE. You have 38 wins and ONE is against a tier E. Bmnielsen beat you 3 times, Adam beat you, Ghost beat you. I really am sorry, but you’re biased. You don’t belong in tier E yet. Keep trying.
So I take issue with your pouting about the system because you don’t like what just happened. It WAS in fact a correction, not a “corruption”. If you want to be tier E, go out there and beat some tier 1’s and E’s. One win against a tier E when you have 50 completed games is not going to do it.
@Shin:
I think Axis-Dominion totally has a point, tho. I think we need a rule that games that are not finished, for whatever reason, simply won’t count in the absence of an official ruling. It isn’t fair to them than Pherman’s bugout caused the huge drop.
You have a point, and I think some kind of rule is needed for quits, and I will think of one. I don’t like people getting credit for wins from forfeits either. Sorry Jenn, but there’s no way you could ever beat DutchmanD in a full game, unless he was drunk during every turn.
However, it was NOT just Pherman’s bugout that caused a huge drop.
Pretty good discussion, I do understand all points made.
You have to remember, we don’t change the rules in the middle of the year. I don’t like the effect of forfeits either, and I didn’t like it before the Pherman issue.
I like the ideas like panels and quotas, believe me, but I think we need a totally objective method that does not involve judgment calls. I was careful to remove judgment calls from assigning players to tiers. Believe me, I love making judgment calls, but for the integrity of the league it is important to keep them to 0 or an absolute minimum.
AGAIN
I’m sorry, but I do not view Dominion as a tier E player, though I have not seen any of his games. I’m just going by who he’s won and lost to all year.
Dominion, are you not having fun in the league? Seems anyone who plays 50 games is a big fan.
15L G40 AeV (Allies +18) vs AHB (Axis) rematch
AHB wins over AeV
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36476.105
This time I handled the Pacific correct, but the disaster caught me on the Eastern Front. :-o
MakeMaps vs Variance (Allies +23):
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36558.45
I tried to do an experimental game that had a bad start for both Germany and Japan. I’m going concede early for this one.
@Shin:
And now one ragequit is compounded by another.
Axis was STOMPING Giallo. STOMPING. Like Axis had 235, and Allies had 130. I can’t believe the game was even still going.
I messaged Giallo. I’m not recording this one unless Giallo accepts it.
I can principally understand that changing rules during a running season is not desirable in general. Do the current rules cover situations like a tier change from an player that went inactive all of a sudden? If no, this is not a change anyway but a necessary amendment (cant find a better word, not a native speaker), if yes, the point is taken on my side. I could not find a specific rule, but only skimmed over them so might have easily overlooked.
I do not doubt that rules will be refined next year, btw, with a big majority being satisified.
BerntBernt (Axis) over Radiant (Allies+19)
So you have all the buzzards to thank too.
this is pretty funny! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Anyways, for what it is worth, I will give up my abandonment victory over PHerman….I think I was ahead but it was very early perhaps T4-5…The game of course still could have gone either way…
As is your Super Bowl and our Champions League…
Its a ranking involved, and a title, that changes matters. It certainly does for me, at times. If you really are totally tension-free and play it exclusively for fun (you are a good player I guess, so you could have something at stake), then there is something I envy in you.
I never stress over it. I used to berate myself really strongly when I made some dumb mistake that led to a loss. Now I just smile and ask for a rematch.
I do take it seriously, in that I want to get better. And I have been. I’ve gone from being a Tier 3 to a middle ground Tier 2, and I feel that’s where I belong right now. Maybe next year I can get to Tier 1? Maybe not. But either way, this is a fun thing.
@JWW:
Anyways, for what it is worth, I will give up my abandonment victory over PHerman….I think I was ahead but it was very early perhaps T4-5…The game of course still could have gone either way…
Classy, JWW, and done
As for what it was worth - not much :roll:
It will take a few more of your league mates to follow suit, to raise Pherman to tier 1 again. Like I said, hitting 20 games activated a loss of his to Adam.
Axis-dominion, it is not fair to me if you scream bloody murder and don’t even communicate what it is that you want. Do you expect me to bend the rules to keep Pherman tier 1 somehow? Why? So that you can keep your E status? I’m just trying to understand, here. Maybe you should be trying to convince the buzzards to give up their forfeit wins like JWW did - that’s up to you and them.
Giallo messaged me back, and he is effectively resigning, giving you the win you deserve, so I will record that now.
I won a game! Praise the Lord!
variance (allies +23) over makemaps
http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=36558.45
much appreciated
Yes, again I hear you. This isn’t the first time there’s been injustices due to abandoned games, if that’s any consolation.
I’m just following the league rules and not making mid-season judgment calls (which itself is a judgment call).
Slate is wiped clean in a month, and you won’t have those first 5 games weighing you down, and we will have new forfeit rules.
