Industrial Complex Question ??

[49icebox]

Classic Axis and Allies Industrial Complex , Question ?

2nd edition Game Play Manuel ,

Pg 13 "newly purchased industrial complexes can be placed only in territories you have owned since the beginning of your TURN "

Pg 14 " Even if you liberate ( capture a territory once owned by a ally ) a territory with a Industrial complex on it , you CAN NOT use the complex but your ally ( who is once again the owner of the liberated territory ) CAN  … "

Lastly found on the last page of the separate " Rules Clarifications "  manual

" your ally captures an enemy territory and the territory is recaptured by the enemy. If you recapture the territory, YOU control the territory, NOT your ally who first captured it "

So in the above scenario , If your ally built a Industrial Complex after capturing the enemy territory ( on the following turn as rules allow ) , then , The territory is recaptured by the enemy , You then capture it. YOU control the territory , get the IPC’s , but your ally has the complex ?? Or , A recaptured territory with a industrial complex goes back to the ally who built the complex ??

Rules say , you liberated the territory and your ally is once again the owner. Also says , You capture it , YOU own it .

Thanks !

[Imperious Leader]

If you liberate a factory originally controlled by an ally, the IPC and the builds go back to that player. Only if you capture an enemy factory, you get the IPC and ability to build.

[49icebox]

@Imperious:

If you liberate a factory originally controlled by an ally, the IPC and the builds go back to that player. Only if you capture an enemy factory, you get the IPC and ability to build.

Even if the liberated factory originally controlled by your ally was built in enemy territory ? Maybe I’m missing something here? You can place a complex in a territory that was originally enemy territory as long as you control it at the start of your turn , correct ? The complex can NOT be used by a liberating ally ( with exception to the loss capital rule ) Rules clarification says " your ally captures an enemy territory and the territory is recaptured by the enemy. If you recapture the territory, YOU control the territory, NOT your ally who first captured it " It goes on to say YOU collect the IPC . I would think by what’s written in the rules , The liberator of the factory claims the land ( which was originally enemy territory ) and IPC but factory production return to the ally ?

[Imperious Leader]

Even if the liberated factory originally controlled by your ally was built in enemy territory

If your ally builds a factory in an enemy territory and you liberate it, the factory is yours for builds.

But if the factory was built or originally in one of his starting territories, that liberation by you means he gets the IPC and the factory is back under his control.

[simon33]

If you liberate a territory, you don’t capture it.

Only way you can capture an allied territory is if the ally’s capital has been captured. If you liberate a capital then all territories own by allies suddenly become own by that ally.

[49icebox]

If your ally builds a factory in an enemy territory and you liberate it, the factory is yours for builds.

Thank you , This is exactly what what I was asking. How did you come to this conclusion? Is this rule written somewhere ?

Page 14 " industrial complexes you own can not be used by any other members of your alliance . Even if you liberate (capture a territory once owned by a ally) a territory with a industrial complex on it, you CANNOT use the complex but your ally (who is once again owner of the liberated territory) can use it on his or her next turn. "

That’s the only reference I can find.

I understand the " captured capital " exception. I’m also not asking about a liberated complex on a original territory.

By the rules I see , If built by a ally in enemy territory,The complex goes to the ally who (built it)originaly owned it , but the IPC for the territory goes to the ally that “captured” it.

Or is the key here “liberated” and “captured” meaning liberated in the above rule is referencing original ally territory , While the " Who Owns It " clarification uses the term captured in explaining the IPC rule in enemy territory.

Again , Just want to play it correctly ,

[Panther]

IMHO this is the part that you have misinterpreted from the rules:

@49icebox:

…
By the rules I see , If built by a ally in enemy territory,The complex goes to the ally who (built it)originaly owned it , but the IPC for the territory goes to the ally that “captured” it.
…

For answering the question who gets the money and who can use the factory, it is irrelevant who actually has built the factory.
The only relevant question is: Who is the owner of the territory after it has been conquered?
These are the possible scenarios (from Allies point of view):

1. Capture

If you (as the Allies) take a territory that has been originally controlled by the Axis, you capture the territory.
For example USA captures FIC from Japan: USA gets the money, USA can build a factory, USA can use an already present factory.
In case Japan retakes FIC from USA and UK then captures FIC from Japan, UK gets the money and UK uses the factory.
As FIC has always been originally controlled by Japan.

2. Liberate

If you (as the Allies) take a territory that has originally been controlled by the Allies but was then under control of an Axis power, you liberate that territory.
a) For example USA liberates India from Japan; India has been originally controlled by UK, so ownership of India reverts to UK; UK will get the money and use the factory
b) For example USA liberates Sinkiang from Japan; Sinkiang has been originally controlled by USA, so ownership of Sinkiang reverts to USA, USA gets the money and uses the factory

(I am leaving out the “captured capital” scenario for now, as you said you had understood that.)

This is all based on the rules you correctly quoted in your very first post.

HTH :-)

[49icebox]

@P@nther:

IMHO this is the part that you have misinterpreted from the rules:

@49icebox:

…
By the rules I see , If built by a ally in enemy territory,The complex goes to the ally who (built it)originaly owned it , but the IPC for the territory goes to the ally that “captured” it.
…

For answering the question who gets the money and who can use the factory, it is irrelevant who actually has built the factory.

Page 14 " industrial complexes you own can not be used by any other members of your alliance . Even if you liberate (capture a territory once owned by a ally) a territory with a industrial complex on it, you CANNOT use the complex but your ally (who is once again owner of the liberated territory) can use it on his or her next turn. "

I don’t see a exception to this rule i.e. … ( exception ,  if your ally built the factory in enemy territory you CAN …  )

[Panther]

@49icebox:

Page 14 " industrial complexes you own can not be used by any other members of your alliance . Even if you liberate (capture a territory once owned by a ally) a territory with a industrial complex on it, you CANNOT use the complex but your ally (who is once again owner of the liberated territory) can use it on his or her next turn. "

So this quote says:
Industrial Complexes owned by USA cannot be used by UK or Russia. Even if USA liberates (capture a territory once owned by Russia) a territory with an industrial complex on it, USA CANNOT use the complex but Russia  (who is once again the owner of the liberated territory) can use it on her next turn.

This is exactly what I covered in my above statement under 2) Liberate. Ownership of an (original) allied territory reverts to the original controller.

@49icebox:

I don’t see a exception to this rule i.e. … ( exception ,  if your ally built the factory in enemy territory you CAN …  )

You can’t see an exception to this above rule because here a different scenario is covered:
This is part 1) Capture of my above statement.

If USA takes for example FIC as a original Japanese territory, USA can use the factory regardless of who built that factory.
Just because ownership of an original Axis territory goes to the capturing Ally.

No exception but the rules:

…

• your industrial complex can be captured if the territory it is in is captured by the enemy
  …

and exactly what you stated in your first post:

@49icebox:

Lastly found on the last page of the separate " Rules Clarifications "  manual

" your ally captures an enemy territory and the territory is recaptured by the enemy. If you recapture the territory, YOU control the territory, NOT your ally who first captured it "

Again: The ownership of the factory is dependent on the ownership of the territory. It is irrelevant who built that factory.
The owner of the territory is always the owner of the factory and can use it.

[49icebox]

OK , It is now clear to me , Thanks everyone for taking your time to explain this to me 👍🏼