Sahara express

[TheDesertFox]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

Yeah I’ve been straddling the fence on whether turn 3 or turn 4 is more viable and I’m thinking turn 4 to, but not necessarily because of the oil fields, granted that’s a thing, but mostly because it’d be neglecting the defense of Egypt and pretty much the rest of Africa for two whole turns. Obviously ten whole IPCs though removed from the Germans should be something that any Allied player should strive for which is why I’m trying to find any way to implement it sooner rather then later.

[surfer]

This is very far-off from the original topic…but I’m curious:

What are you considering as a viable invasion of Norway turn 3-4? 6-8 units (inf &AA mix)? Anything less and the 1 transport (2 inf) + 2 bombard + Luftwaffe that Germany will counter with is wiped out.

I don’t see how this works early in the game. You have to protect with so many units that either it is a 1 time invasion fleet (just transports), or you have ignored everything else on the board–If you could even protect it.

Norway is much more of a threat to Germany as a US territory anyway. UK can purchase ftrs and reinforce a US invasion without losing units. Waiting a few rounds for the US to join the attack is much more viable. Just building up the UK forces turns 1-5 can ensure the US can fight well on turns 6+ (earlier if Axis bring them into the war before Turn 3)

[shadowhawk]

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

It all depends on what germany does really.
If they neglect norway and push all to finland and then into russia there is nothing stopping the UK from using a starting transport to just take norway.

Basically after round 2 its not possible to determine what can or cannot be done as your opponents strategy migth have some holes in it or just bad dice.

Like Italy can never take egypt before round X. Well what if taranto went wrong and italy has still 3 transports? Its unlikely maby? But could be that the UK had other plans with those ships?
If you want to consolidate near Gibraltar and only use 1 attacking unit near malta both attacking forces can be destroyed. Just an example.

[TheDesertFox]

@surfer

Two fully loaded carriers and the destroyers plus the cruiser you start with in the Atlantic can and will prove sufficient enough to ward off a Luftwaffe strike. What I consider a viable invasion is 6 ground troops atleast going into Norway… the point is to capture it and hold it and not let the Germans retake which is why Im largely considering round 4 to be another viable option for invasion.

And while Norway might be better suited in the hands of the US, the point is, the UK can take it AND Finland much quicker then the US, and on top of that, the IPCs are much more needed in the hands of the UK then the US.

[shadowhawk]

@TheDesertFox
Thing is, if you got that force germany and italy also have to worry about other points you might want to visit with those troops. Rome appears to be a verry nice city. And even if you only take it for 1 round germany still has to divert resources to recapture it.

Its actually quite good as a fleet in being there. Because germany cant just have you keep normandy, or south france or italy or norway or western germany. So it has to be able to counter all of these.

[TheDesertFox]

@shadowhawk

Precisely. And that’s exactly how it should be used. The ideal goal is to take Norway but if the German player just thinks “Oh he’s trying to take Norway let me just center all my resources up in Scandinavia” then fine as the British player I’ll just head South with the fleet where the Axis resources aren’t. Its resourceful and it also allows your planes to perform land operations from the sea.

[Pinch1]

@TheDesertFox

If Germany builds in Navy significantly they can take Norway off the table. unless allies are staged in sz 109. If allies staged in sz 109 Italy is not threatened. Norway is great location to even throw transports at IF Germany doesn’t have a fleet to dominate it. I personally play with a large German fleet that takes sz109 off the table. If Allies want to waste money attacking Norway they’ll either have to sacrifice those transports and replace every turn or leave the protection of their air bases with their fleet and lose their invasion assets entirely.

Losing Norway for some time is worth it if Axis destroy the possibility of allied invasion of mainland Europe. It’ll be 4 or so turns before they can threaten again, by that time Germany has dealt with the incursion in Scandinavia and Italy is rampaging through North Africa and Middle East. The cost of taking the heat off Italy can be detrimental.

Piecemeal dismantling Germany only works if allies have guaranteed naval superiority and the freedom to choose their battle ground.

Don’t get me wrong, I like invading Norway. I have just found that overwhelming German naval presence completely shuts that down as a viable option. Insomuch as a move to threaten Norway requires heavy commitment and telegraphs the Allies intent. Preparations can be made to thwart that effort, Italy remains unthreatened and can bolster it’s position in the Mediterranean.

I like keeping the pressure on from sz91. It keeps the Italians in check, they can’t operate freely with their limited assets if they want to protect Rome. If Germany doesn’t protect the seas Norway is a great place to hit. Most players do not invest in a large German navy so it’s a great way to whittle away at the Axis position.

I don’t play that way with Germany. I found instead of wasting all those IPCs trying to protect multiple fronts I started dumping them into German navy. That covers the North for me. It’s had amazing results for Germany. Try it out and you’re gonna be really scratching your head trying to figure out a way around it.

[simon33]

I’ve played a game where this was done. USA moved a tank to FWA round 1 and it gets to Iraq round 4. UK has to risk its planes to remove the infantry from Iraq, perhaps a strafing attack. Or USA can follow up with a couple of planes via the same route and probably sacrifice them.

It’s a viable move and if you use the transport around Cape Horn it takes the same time but ties up the transport for longer. This move is definitely more valuable in 2nd Edition than in Balanced Mod though because with the extra money UK gets in BM it can easily enough support 2 mICs.

Downside is that now you have two nations with armies in the Middle East (not counting Anzac and France). This is not as good for attacking the Axis but still pretty good for static defence.

I’m also not too sure about waiting all this time: building the mIC round 5, first units round 6! By this time Moscow can have already fallen but I guess good players should have it living longer.

[Cornwallis]

@simon33 what if they moved not one tank but 4 fast and 4 slow movers per turn. This will give the US some striking Power in the ME. UK can focus on building subs or fleet to convoy italy or reinforce India?
A minor in ME for US is too late i think.
Did Allies win in your game?

[simon33]

@Cornwallis said in Sahara express:

Did Allies win in your game?

Don’t remember to be honest, was like 4 years ago.

[Cornwallis]

@simon33

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQDC0iGa7UY

A small video.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Cornwallis

Not an expert, but from my experience slow movers are, well, too slow to get to the Middle East from French West Africa.

Additionally, I often find that if the Allies need to defend substantially in the Middle East, they’ve effectively lost as Germany probably already took Moscow and Japan likely took India. If either place is the ultimate destination it’ll take even longer. There are 10 territories seperating French West Africa to either of those destinations in the most direct route (best case scenario assuming the Allies even control all those territories).

It’s a much better investment in most cases to launch amphibious assaults in Europe or even North Africa than trying to buff up the Middle East via French West Africa. As I’ve said previously, only transport units there if absolutely necessary (usually if Germany and Italy are still too menacing in the Atlantic and the UK activated Brazil early and that’s the only spot they can safely transport units to the mainland).

[Cornwallis]

@SuperbattleshipYamato of course it´s better to hit North Africa or Europe directly.
But when Germany fends of with fleet and bombers you gotta do something.
It´s only the fast movers that go there. They can reach India turn 4.
As i explain it´s a three turn investment. Other than that US can invest in Pacific. But with this move you have already some back up in the Middle East. UK can´t do this alone.

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Cornwallis

I guess as a short term move (rather than a long-term strategy) while you wait for the fleet to build up may have more utility.

[Pinch1]

GHG has a strategy called Middle Earth. You build a mIC, and naval base in Persia. That works well enough to reinforce anywhere you need to. If UK concentrates spending there the Middle East is quite secure. Hardly anything from America is needed.

Apart from getting diced in Taranto America can keep the lid on containing Italy. Agreeing with @SuperbattleshipYamato moving across Africa is too slow for anything meaningful.

Middle Earth is solid, and as far as I can tell the best strat for the Allies. Apart form Germany building up a major fleet Allies should be able to push a win through without a bid.

[Cornwallis]

@SuperbattleshipYamato that is precisely the goal.

[Cornwallis]

@Pinch1 true but that doesn´t change that US is faced with a German navy and bomberfleet.
What do you do with US when UK does Middle Earth, go full pacific?

[SuperbattleshipYamato]

@Cornwallis

That’s an option. Just in case Japan captures India and threatens the Middle East. If the US gets good research dice they’re very hard to stop in the Pacific if they put their mind to it.

[Pinch1]

@Cornwallis

If US goes full pacific they can make like super hard for Japan.

There’s a good video by GHG on the Middle Earth Floating Bridge combo. Its a killer strategy. He likes to dump a lot into Europe, get boots on the ground. I struggled to find a counter play to it for a while. Its strong enough to overcome a moderate German navy and push it into the Baltic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4q2C2lcKAA&t=1568s

[Cornwallis]

@Pinch1 yes i know that video but it demands huge US resources so by doing that you are abandoning the Pacific and Axis can easily repulse the US landings. Plus they can destroy a portion of your fleet very easily.