Frankly even if they didnt go after Japan, it’d just be the same thing only Japan is doing it.
Both Germany and Japan have the ability to inflict their will upon the Pacific/Atlantic and the U.S. needs to take the appropriate measures to counter both of these guys at all costs.
@thedesertfox A capital race is sure to involve a loss because you are afraid of losing the expensive units. Try a game where you buy zero capital ships. You depend on the airbases on the board. What I am trying to do is to kill at least 50 percent of the IJN on the cheap. My reserves are planes that can hit the sz around Wake and then land on Wake. And subs which can reach Wake from the west coast. In 3 turns the IJN will run from this fight. When they do, I will reconstruct and move the fighters to Guam. From there you can land in Yunnan or stay there, fortify and move on Phil Islands or sz 6 itself, having made transit in that area dangerous or impossible.
A J1 move south would allow this move to proceed two turns without recourse. By then, it might be too late for the Japanese.
@nolimit I have a solution for that which involves having 6 fighters in England t1 and adding a destroyer to whatever fleet remains in the Atlantic. I would bring the cruiser in 91 and Canadian destroyer and the rest to 106. Some of the planes in the Med can land in Gibraltar and be ready to defend London or attack the invasion fleet. I would try to eliminate any remaining subs. Instead of fortifying I will try savaging the Germans invasion force with air and ships.
Definitely a more interesting and bare bones way of going about fighting the Japanese…
So many years back when I was still playing mini 1941 edition with a buddy of mine, we always had the Battleship race to see who as America or Japan could get the lead in battleships since that was the way to win the Pacific. Having gone from 1941 edition to Anniversary, America was capable of building 2 battleships a turn making me stumped as to how this was fair until I found the catch as to which carriers were the way to go.
I’ve done the math, and a whopping 2 battleships matches up to a carrier with 2 fighters on it, which as you know is not cost effective.
As for not buying capital ships… I’m trying to see a scenario of how this works out for the US. America not buying ANY capital ships? 0 battleships and 0 carriers?
So to be completely exact, America begins with 5 planes on the Pacific side of the board. Each of these planes is capable of reaching Wake Island as expected, you can even bring a bomber if you’re really tryna jazz up the airforce. All to which can reach Midway or Wake Island on Americas first turn. Now, seeing as there are 4 frickin’ fighters just chilling in one spot with like, no ground forces acting as backup, I as Japan won’t have attacked on J1, have built like 2 transports the firs tturn or a transport and a carrier to hold more fighters.
Now assuming you move your navy to Wake to protect from an amphibious assault, you’re effectively throwing you’re navy out the gate since Japan starts with a far stronger navy then the Americans, and as for subs well… destroyer. That’s all it takes to make any surprise strikes completely incapable as well as the mass amount of Japanese planes that can then strikea the submarines with access to destroyers. So I really do not know why the IJN would run from this fight… the potential to bring in 4 aircraft carriers, 2 battleships, 2 cruisers, 4 destroyers, 2 submarines, and like 4 to 5 transports of units all crashing down on Wake Island, only for the entirety of your navy to be destroyed, not only that but the only airforce you had in the Pacific.
Also, there really isn’t anything stopping me from taking Wake Island and Guam even on a J1 attack and setting up a Japanese sphere of influence with the large naval presence to go along with IJN blockers to prevent you from making amphibious landings…
I mean, I’m not saying anything’s impossible, but if America doesn’t build capital ships then they’re gonna die… they’re sailors are gonna die, and they allies are gonna’ die. There just isn’t any other way of countering the large IJN naval presence then to fight guns with even bigger guns.
@crockett36 That just means you’re giving ITALY a Free hand in the Med+Africa by devoting needed units away from the Taranto Raid and N Africa, with the US going Full KJF then ITALY becomes a Monster together with Germany!!!
@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:
@crockett36 That just means you’re giving ITALY a Free hand in the Med+Africa by devoting needed units away from the Taranto Raid and N Africa, with the US going Full KJF then ITALY becomes a Monster together with Germany!!!
That’s the way it should be with if Italy had correct leadership. Its more fun when Italy and Russia shows up instead of getting beat up most times. Just more fun for Italy and Russia players. Just saying.
@gen-manstein Not so fun for RUSSIA if the US goes KJF, the Russians need the diversion of US+UK Allied units in W Europe if the European Axis are to be contained!
@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:
@gen-manstein Not so fun for RUSSIA if the US goes KJF, the Russians need the diversion of US+UK Allied units in W Europe if the European Axis are to be contained!
Thats why you LL to Russia each turn and those allies figs can fight else where and no bid needed.
@gen-manstein We’re talking about oob rules here not house rules, hence why a KJF would be hard on Russia…
@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:
@gen-manstein We’re talking about oob rules here not house rules, hence why a KJF would be hard on Russia…
I know. Killin me !
Once u put in a bid it’s no longer oob. It’s a house rule game now.
Yeah well all the same if America doesn’t prioritize Japan then Japan’s gonna go frickin’ nuts in the Pacific and just swallow up any IPC’s the Pacific Allies had and win the game for the Pacific so you’re left with the 2 choices of which is the better way to strike at the Axis.
Hence why at the end of the day, the Axis have the optimal advantage over the Allies. The United States can’t definitely pick one side of the world to fight on over the other without major loose ends to deal with to which the game is being threatened with an Axis victory.
@thedesertfox Which is why a KGF is the best way to go, especially if there’s a Sealion- just make sure that Sydney+Hawaii is stacked up with units and make Calcutta a very costly win for the Japanese!!!
If it was as simple as stacking units on Sydney and Honolulu then I’m not sure people would still be playing this game.
Japan already has the absolute ability to destroying the American fleet and transports in Hawaii with a properly setup Pearl Harbor attack already rendering the United States broken and ineffective to fight back.
And if they keep their navy in San Francisco for protection then as the player playing Japan I’m doing my job at keeping the US out of my business in the Pacific. And with a destroyed navy and a firm sphere of influence over Honolulu having only 3 spaces to get to right from the Sea of Japan America now has to fight the Japanese and commit instead of just stacking units on Honolulu.
@thedesertfox All of what you are saying actually proves my point. I have now put your entire navy and a good chunk of your air power in out of the way Wake island sea zone. It will be hit by a second and then a third and then a fourth wave of planes and subs. (I bring four ground units to Wake t1) By T3 the ijn will either draw close to the Us (inviting disaster) and an existential war it can’t win because it is not making 64 ipcs or it will limp away south and try to make up for lost time. My subs will proceed to sz 6 to convoy. My planes and transports can eventually grab guam and split the empire in half.
Calcutta is a million miles away. China and England are stacking Yunnan. And as the Japanese you have to invest in navy! Asia is slipping away and the money islands are in Anzac s hands.
So we’re clear, Wake has 2 fig 1 diver as scramblers a bomber and 4 infantry. The sea zone has 1 destroyer, 2 cruisers, a battleship and a carrier with 2 figs in it.
A fig in west Us (from east coast t1) and three subs off the coast, 2 bombers in middle America as the second wave.
@nolimit we’ll have to put it to the test. Resign and we can give it a go.
@thedesertfox obviously I am assuming that oob tilts in the axis favor ergo you can not play it straight but must be audacious and press whatever advantage you have.
I’m not really following here.
4 destroyers, 2 submarines, 4 fighters, 4 tactical bombers, 2 battleships, 2 bombers and a cruiser, all up against 1 sub, 2 destroyers, 2 cruisers, a battleship, and a carrier with a tactical bomber and fighter and I assume the reason you want to use territories such as Wake Island and Guam is for the opportunity to scramble those planes… I hate to be the bearer of bad news but even 3 planes scrambled into the Sea zone isn’t enough (did the math, tested the averages and it doesn’t work).
America at most might clear out all the cannon faughter that the Japanese bring forward which would be their subs and destroyers, leaving all their big heavier ships still alive and undamaged.
I’m not sure if you realize how close Calcutta is to Japan. J2, capture French Indo China J3 put a complex on it whilst capture Malaya since as the British if you’re reinforcing Yunnan with everything you have then you’re going to leave Malaya open to attack by naval forces, J4 put a major industrial complex there then pump out the 10 units and now your southern flank is just as strong if not stronger than you’re northern flank.
As per ‘stacking’ Yunnan, assuming Japan continues to role through China by J2 China is only left with a meager 5 IPC’s, with Japan having overwhelmed Yunnan, and NOT having declared war on the British, preventing them from moving into Yunnan to support the Chinese, (Unless you want to move them in as a declaration of war, keeping the Americans out of the war into turn 4, which I’d welcome).
The reason Japan lost WWII to America is because the United States merely had to let Japan burn themselves out on the Americans, throwing everything they had at them and then moving forward. If that’s what you as the American player do to Japan than a Japanese victory is clear. Japan starts with a bigger navy, a much bigger Airforce than America, and moving your units into the Japanese Sphere of influence like that is pretty much throwing them away. As the player playing japan, I would absolutely welcome America to put the majority of their money in the Pacific.
Like General Hand Grenade said, there’s no magic bullet or secret passage to beating the Germans or the Japanese within the first 3-4 turns, and your especially not going to be getting to the home base of Japan in that time span either simply because of what you said… ships. As Japan, I have the first 3 turns to build as many ships as I please before I start pumping out land units to take Calcutta with my factories on Malaya and French Indo China, ground units aren’t a priority for me until turn 4, leaving me to build up my navy from what it already is, increase the carrier count to 5 aircraft carriers, and if you as the U.S don’t have atleast 3 by then well… you’ve lost the Pacific, because like I said the Sub strategy would be a great idea… if my fighters and tac bombers can’t hit them, but they can as long as theres a destroyer present. Also, assuming you’re talking about strategic bombers in central united states, well they wouldn’t reach since Wake Island would be captured by incoming japanese invasion of transports.
So at the end of the day if I don’t win as Japan, I know Germany will.
@thedesertfox Very well stated, this is why after many years of countless play since this game has been out, No One has proven that a KJF works better than a KGF!!!
@nolimit said in Converting to KJF:
@thedesertfox Very well stated, this is why after many years of countless play since this game has been out, No One has proven that a KJF works better than a KGF!!!
Come on nolimit. You can find away. You have nolimits to your strategies !!!
