Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]

[General 6 Stars]

May not work with this game. You would need to shift them around. Do you still have my pic I sent you have my 3 island groups ?
You said you where going to look into it in your game.

[General 6 Stars]

This post is deleted!

[General 6 Stars]

I removed the Anzac NO Black Chip group. Gave US a new NO 3 island group.
Solomon
Gilbert
Johnston

Not in this pic. After play testing

[vodot]

@Argothair What about that spectacularly elegant idea we discussed last year (in this thread) : The Colonial Outpost?

Colonial Outpost
Instead of a bid, before the start of the game the Allies may designate any Allied TT as the “Colonial Outpost” for that game. Add an IC + AAA to that territory and increase it’s IPC value by +1 (but not over 3) for the duration of the game. If the “Colonial Outpost” is ever captured by the Axis Powers, the IC there is destroyed (not captured) and the value of the territory reverts back to the original value printed on the board.

I’m teaching this game to my group soon, and I liked this idea so much that I’m planning to pretend that an “internet quorum” of “unassailable genius” (namely yourself and @axis_roll) had decided this was the best way to balance 42.2 and 50_41… and if the idea completely tanks I can blame said quorum for all failures. :rolling_on_the_floor_laughing:

[axis_roll]

GERMANY
• 5 IPCs if Axis Axis control 2+ of NW Europe, Norway, and Finland; and no Allied warships in SZ 6
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Karelia, Ukraine, Caucasus
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Archangel, Moscow, and Kazakh
RUSSIA
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Archangel and no Axis ships in SZ 3 or 4
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Persia and Caucasus, and no Axis ships in SZ 34
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Soviet Far East and Yakutsk, and no Axis ships in SZ 63
JAPAN
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 4+ of Iwo Jima, Carolines, Alaska, Midway, Hawaiian Islands, Wake Island, Solomons
• 5 IPCs if Axis Powers control at least one of the following territories: India, Australia, New Zealand and/or Western USA.
• 5 IPCs if Axis control Manchuria, Kiangsu, Fukien, Kwantung, and French Indochina/Thailand
• 5 IPCs if Axis control Borneo and/or East Indies, and no Allied subs anywhere in SZ 49, 50, 60, 61, or 62
why subs? What about ANY ship?

UK
• 3 IPCs if Allies control E. Canada and Iceland and there are no Axis ships in SZ 1, 2, 7, 8, or 9.
• 3 IPCs if Allies control Gibraltar and Egypt and there are no Axis ships in SZ 13, 14, or 15
Hard to attain, s/b 5 IPC
• 3 IPCs if UK has at least one land unit in Italy and/or the Balkans.
s/b $5
• 5 IPCs if Allies control India, French Indochina, and Kwangtung.
Not going to happen, Kwangtung very hard to be in Allied hands on UK’s turn
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Australia, New Zealand, and New Guinea.
ITALY
• 5 IPCs if Axis control Morocco and Libya and there are no Allied ships in SZ 13, 14, or 15
• 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Persia, Caucasus
USA
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Midway, Hawaii, Alaska and Western USA.
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Australia, Solomons, Hawaii, Western USA
• 5 IPCs if Allies control 3+ of Japanese Islands: Formosa, Okinawa, Iwo Jima, Carolines
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Philippines
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Mexico, Cuba, Panama, Brazil and Greenland.
• 5 IPCs if Allies control Morocco and Libya and USA has land units in Morocco or Libya
• 5 IPCs if Allies control France and USA has land units in France or NW Europe
CHINA
• +1 Chinese artillery for any Chinese-owned territory if Allies control India, Burma, and Yunnan
• Sikang starts the game with 1 infantry, 1 fighter. Yunnan starts with (only) 2 infantry.
• Chinese troops may move into Burma, French Indochina, and/or Kwangtung.

[axis_roll]

Above list was a combination of OP and best thoughts (IMHO) from thread.
Couple of points/questions in above list.

Other points: That’s allot of USA bonus money, Could be easily at +$20 round 2 ($60 USA IPCs!) , going forward… plus an attainable $10 more if full effort against Japan. May need to lower some of the pacific NOs to $3

[baron Münchhausen]

@axis_roll said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

Above list was a combination of OP and best thoughts (IMHO) from thread.
Couple of points/questions in above list.

Other points: That’s allot of USA bonus money, Could be easily at +$20 round 2 ($60 USA IPCs!) , going forward… plus an attainable $10 more if full effort against Japan. May need to lower some of the pacific NOs to $3

Yes, it is a lot of money for USA.
However, Japan has the initiative and can deny a few of them, with not so much effort besides delaying money grab.
The 5 IPCs was two purposes: a single IPCs number easy to calculate, a high incentive to fight in Pacific theatre. By proposing mostly 3 reachable NOs in PTOs compared to 2 from ATOs, USA get big money to defend PTOs islands.

Don’t forget this get rid of US homeland NOs, there was initially 6 IPCs for 2 NOs. Now it is 5 IPCs for 1 NO?

[General 6 Stars]

What is the normal 15 bid ? In pieces ? I didn’t see an answer from my previous post for a reply.

[Argothair]

@SS-GEN So the bid in my playgroup is just generally in the 15 range – I’ve seen as low as 10 and as high as 24. There are a few different ideas for how to spend it – sometimes you get a factory, ala @vodot 's elegant Colonial Outpost idea. Sometimes you get navy, like you build a couple of destroyers to reinforce Atlantic fleets and give the Luftwaffe a tough time. Sometimes the build is planes in London, which is often anti-Italy, with the idea of knocking out the Italian fleet early. Bids in the Middle East are very popular; some combination of infantry, tanks, and planes in Egypt/Jordan/India. @axis_roll is a devout proponent of putting a sub off the coast of India to sink a Japanese transport (the Japanese can’t reach it on J1 with their lone destroyer). And of course you will see people putting 2-3 artillery in eastern Europe to fight the Germans, maybe also an artillery in Yakut or Buryatia to keep Japan honest in the northeast. A dedicated KJF strategy might have infantry in Australia, Yunnan, India, and Buryatia to try to overwhelm the Japanese starting forces and pressure them into allowing you to keep at least one forward base.

in terms of the proposed revisions to the national objectives, I’m hearing a lot of back and forth about add more US money in Europe, add more US money in the Pacific, wait, that’s too much money for the US, scale it all back. The discussion is sort of going in circles a little bit. I don’t sharply disagree with any of your specific proposals, but it might be helpful to come to a consensus first on general principles.

For example, on turn 3, if the USA is playing with average skill and average luck, how many IPCs of NOs should they be earning if they go heavy into Europe? heavy into the Pacific? balanced in both theaters? I tend to think that playing a strategy that’s balanced in both theaters should be the most rewarding (because those are the kinds of games I enjoy most, so I want to encourage them), but that can be hard to do.

Is it reasonable to say the USA should expect to be earning 15 IPCs/turn in NOs in the early middlegame if it focuses on one theater, and 20 IPCs / turn in NOs in the early middlegame if it splits its energy between both theaters, and maybe 25 IPCs / turn in NOs in the endgame if it has successfully made big landings in only one theater, and 35 IPCs / turn in the endgame for big landings in both theaters? Is that too much money? Not enough? I enjoy games where the Axis have to win before the USA as a sleeping giant fully awakens and deploys its power, but, then, I’m an American, so I’m biased. :-p

[axis_roll]

@Argothair "For example, on turn 3, if the USA is playing with average skill and average luck, how many IPCs of NOs should they be earning if they go heavy into Europe? heavy into the Pacific? balanced in both theaters? "

I agree with having the USA be balanced, I thought I answered your “How many IPCs…?” with my post that tried to summarize the fluid NO list. (easily +$20, so $60 IPCs !)

There is only 2 NOs for ATO for USA. Much more in the Pacific (which is what is needed/wanted). We’re going to have to play some games with some initial figures to see if we’re heading in the right direction or we will {continue to} go in circles.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@
One last thought, You don’t want to necessarily <overly> reward what would be a typical good move. For example, the Allies almost always conduct the Operation Torch landings into Africa, but USA is getting $5 for doing this solid move.

[Argothair]

@axis_roll Well, accurately interpreting comments on the Internet is hard! You do keep suggesting 20 IPCs of NOs…but then you add exclamation points in way that leaves me unsure of whether you find this outrageously excessive, or merely exciting. :-)

I agree with your point about not overly rewarding moves that are easy enough to do and typically worth doing anyway. I’d be happy to lower Operation Torch as far down as saying it’s only worth 2 IPCs, and/or make the objective a little harder…but I’ve got other commenters insisting that all the NOs have to be the same value for easy counting.

I think I am going to make an executive decision and say that the NOs I’m designing are allowed to have different values. If you want to make your own NOs that are all exactly 5 IPCs, but part of what I see as the charm of Global 1940 Balanced Mod is that it uses different NO values to achieve a more nuanced effect. I like that and I want to steal it for Anniversary.

[axis_roll]

@Argothair "Well, accurately interpreting comments on the Internet is hard! "

HA! true dat. These are your proposals and you should have the final say once you consider other comments/perspectives. I have no problem with different NO’s having different values, that is the beauty of the construct, it’s flexibility!

Once a better finalized list has been generated, I do want to kick the tires on these NO’s via a game. Probably after Christmas time I should have some time to start that. Not to stray too far off topic, but do you envision these being the only changes to the OOB rules? E.G. No bid needed. Tech off too? (ugh to non-directed tech). Dice average

[Argothair]

@axis_roll Yeah, that sounds good! I should have some free time starting in late January. I’m happy to shut off tech so we can focus on the new NOs. The only new rule I would want to add is Global 40 Balanced Mod-style strategic bombing and interceptors. I would boost the strategic damage of bombers from 1d6 to 1d6+1, and say that they can be intercepted by defending fighters. Each defending fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an attacking plane on a roll of 2 or less. Then, each attacking bomber and each escorting attacking fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an intercepting plane on a roll of 1 or less. Then, all surviving fighters from both sides automatically retreat (or land in place), and you continue on with AAA fire and bombing damage as normal (except that bombing damage is slightly increased to 1d6+1).

The reason I like those rules is that right now, strategic bombing in Anniversary is sort of just a bunch of luck; there’s not much point to it. Yes, in rare circumstances you can use it to project power to, e.g., trade Japanese resources for Russian resources, or to shut down Italy’s economy in preparation for an Italian invasion – but there’s no nuance or tactics to it; you just get your bombers in range and then pound away and hope to get lucky. With the BM interceptor rules, strategic bombing becomes noticeably profitable when capitals are undefended, and noticeably unprofitable when capitals have fat stacks of fighters defending them – so there’s an interesting dance where you can try to fork enemy factories so that the defending fighters can’t be everywhere at once, or create opportunity costs where fighters are needed as both interceptors and for ground defense in another territory that doesn’t have a factory…it just gets more interesting. It might also soak up a bit of the extra income that these NOs are throwing into the pot, either for bombers, or for fighters, or for repairing strategic damage.

[Argothair]

Update: second draft posted at the top of the thread based on everyone’s comments. Thank you for commenting!

[General 6 Stars]

I like the 3 icps for most NOs. Keeps things more under control. So nothing as far as Azores being involved ?

[Argothair]

@SS-GEN Thanks! Not sure if you’re joking, but the Azores don’t show up on the Anniversary map. The closest I can get is the US’s South Atlantic sea zones NO.

https://www.axisandallies.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/axis-allies-anniversary-3.jpg

[General 6 Stars]

Ok. No joke. Thought it was on map. Been years since I looked at map. Just was a big airport for allies.
Good luck with your testing.

[axis_roll]

@Argothair said in Balanced Mod [Anniversary 41]:

The only new rule I would want to add is Global 40 Balanced Mod-style strategic bombing and interceptors. I would boost the strategic damage of bombers from 1d6 to 1d6+1, and say that they can be intercepted by defending fighters. Each defending fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an attacking plane on a roll of 2 or less. Then, each attacking bomber and each escorting attacking fighter rolls one die one time and shoots down an intercepting plane on a roll of 1 or less. Then, all surviving fighters from both sides automatically retreat (or land in place), and you continue on with AAA fire and bombing damage as normal (except that bombing damage is slightly increased to 1d6+1).

Not familiar with this particular mod, so couple of questions:

Do defending ftrs have to intercept? In other words, they can decide to not go up to avoid the risk of being lost.

Does the AAA flak only shoot at remaining bombers, not fighters?

[axis_roll]

So @Argothair, this is the list we’re using to game play test?

GERMANY

Scandinavian Iron – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Norway, Finland, and NW Europe
Eurasian Wheat – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Karelia, Ukraine, Caucasus
Archangel-Astrakhan Line – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of: Archangel, Moscow, and Kazakh
RUSSIA

Northern Lend-Lease – 3 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Archangel with no Axis ships in SZ 3 or 4
Southern Lend-Lease – 3 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Persia & Caucasus w/ no Axis ships in SZ 34
Eastern Lend-Lease – 3 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control SFE & Yakutsk w/ no Axis ships in SZ 63
JAPAN

Chinese Coastline – 3 IPCs if Axis control Manchuria, Kiangsu, Fukien, Kwantung, and French Indochina
Chinese Hegemony – 3 IPCs if Axis control literally all Chinese territories
Bornese Oil – 3 IPCs if Axis control Borneo and no Allied warships anywhere in SZ 49, 50, 60, 61, or 62
Javanese Rubber – 3 IPCs if Axis control East Indies and no Allied warships anywhere in SZ 38, 49, 50, 60, 61, or 62
Central Pacific Islands – 3 IPCs if Axis control 4+ of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Midway, Wake, Carolines, Hawaii
Co-Prosperity Sphere – 3 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of India, Australia, Hawaii, Yakut SSR
UK

North Atlantic – 3 IPCs if Allies control E. Canada, Greenland, and Iceland with no Axis ships in SZs 1 through 9.
Mediterranean Route – 3 IPCs if Allies control Gibraltar and Egypt with no Axis warships in SZ 13, 14, or 15.
Soft Underbelly – 3 IPCs if UK has at least one land unit in Italy and/or the Balkans.
Indian Empire – 3 IPCs if Allies control India, Madagascar, and South Africa with no Axis ships in SZs 28 through 35.
ANZAC – 3 IPCs if Allies control Australia, New Zealand, New Guinea, and the Solomon Islands.
ITALY

Vichy Collaboration – 3 IPCs if Axis control France, Morocco, and Libya
Mare Nostrum – 3 IPCs if there are no Allied ships in SZ 13, 14, or 15
Abyssinian Adventure – 3 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of Sudan, Italian East Africa, Rhodesia
Mideastern Oil – 5 IPCs if Axis control 2+ of Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Persia, Caucasus
USA

Arsenal of Democracy – 5 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Western US, Central US, and Eastern US
Manifest Destiny – 5 IPCs after the start of turn 3 if Allies control Mexico, Panama, Hawaii, and Alaska
South Atlantic – 2 IPCs if Allies control West Indies and Brazil with no Axis warships in SZ 10, 11, 12, 17, 18, or 19
Operation Torch – 3 IPCs if USA has land units in both Morocco and Libya
Operation Overlord – 5 IPCs if USA has land units both NW Europe and France
Central Pacific Islands – 3 IPCs if Allies control 4+ of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Midway, Wake, Carolines, Hawaii
Alcor Aluminum – 2 IPCs if Allies control Australia, Solomon Islands, Hawaii, and Western US
MacArthur was a Donkey – 5 IPCs if Allies control the Philippines
West Pacific Airstrips – 5 IPCs if Allies control 3+ of Iwo Jima, Okinawa, Formosa, Manchuria, Buryatia
CHINA

Burma Road – +1 Chinese artillery for any Chinese-owned territory if Allies control India, Burma, and Yunnan
** Setup Change – Sikang starts the game with 1 infantry, 1 fighter. Yunnan starts with (only) 2 infantry.
** Rules Change – Chinese troops may move into Burma, French Indochina, and/or Kwangtung.

(Plus the interceptor mod you suggested, no tech)

If so, do you have a side you prefer to play? I will go with either one. One last question… Low Luck or pure luck for battle outcome?

Once we decide these, then I can start to strategize more seriously and then we can arrange a date to start.

[axis_roll]

what (if any) is the difference between a warship and a ship? There’s several references to both in these.