The only thing really wrong with that is that Japan is going to have its way on the mainland pretty easily I think. The 3 infantry and fighter that start in India isn’t exactly that much unless you build a factory in India. Japanese transports in my games tend to be the game enders because they can reinforce the mainland really well from Manchuria. Also, taking out Germany first will be difficult without the help of the United States. What is England doing in the Atlantic?
Which side has an advantage?
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@ncscswitch:
Actually, my win percentage with a 5 bid is almost 100 percent.
yep 1 for 1 is as close to 100% as you can get :)
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Actually, based on memory, I am 4 for 4 in revised with a bid of 5.
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5 is lowest ill bid, but I like 6. I usually play with FIDA bid, so inf lib, 2 ips Ger, ipc Jap is how i go.
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I think the TripleA ladder comes pretty close to 50-50 with a 9 bid (limit 1 unit per ter).
Since we have no placement restrictions it is much harder to figure out, because all bids are not equal. For example, 3 inf bid to Fic may not be as strong as 3 inf to Ukr or 3 inf to Lib.
IMO, if you just picked two random players who are familiar with the game and had them play, you’d probably want to give the Axis player 8 or 9 to make it 50-50.
And at this point I’d be even will to take the TripleA numbers and say 9 gives you a 50-50 shot even though we have different placement requirements.
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:|
What we are seeing is a comfort zone, so to speak, with playing the Axis against more experienced allied players, (and we must assume that our opponents are experienced). At tripleA 9 IPC has been the required bid for all their ladder games, and as static as that may sound, it gives everyone the same balance irregardless of their experience level. Some may say that that is too high, but the wins vs losses show that that has been a very good balance point. One unit /territory is the only restriction. 3 extra Infantry in the Ukraine would be very tough for the Russians right off the bat!
On live play I will go lower, if nothing more than to give my opponent a better fighting chance, unless I know that they are a good or expert player. :wink:So my bid usually starts at 12 and goes down to my comfort zone, of 8 or 9.
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Bids have to be bassed off of skill, both yours and the opponant. for now my friend and i have yet to have the Axis loss with a bid zero… why? we havn’t mastered the Allies stratagy yet, although i think i have just won the first time with Allies at bid 0.
on the reverse by same friend and i have played a friend that i used to play a lot who is highlly skilled but is new to Revised. we gave him a bid 8 and kicked him all over the place as we had been playing a few games already against each other and had a good idea of how to make the Allies work right.
as a reverse i have played 2 games with mjkusn01 now both he was Axis and we went with bid 8 for those (or was it 7?) and he won both games. first i was beat around like a rag doll but i was still prity green to the game (had played 3 games before that with only one as Allies). the secound game my record had only changed to 5 games and 2 as Allies; i lost again but my mistakes were less and i feel i did much better and my loss was due over all to 1 or 2 bad timed moves and Allied build up that took a little too long for Europe. i think i would have been in place to land in Europe a turn or two too late.
now what am i saying hear?
that a Bid is based off skill/confert. if a player is confident in there skill then a low bid is fine, but not so much then a higher bid should be taken. i feel the 7-9 is probably prity center of the road, but a 0 against some one who hasn’t got the Allies down yet is perfectly with in reason. i mean if you were to play me as the Allies based on my track record with them why would you need a bid of 3 even? i can’t win with a bid 0 :lol: -
:-)
Yes of course, one must always consider the experience level of their opponent/s.
But, in a tournyment or league game, You better not play anything less than 8 for the Axis, if you want to have a good shot at winning.
New players generally won’t get into tourneys or league games by themselves, too many good players there, and not much fun to get wipped out early.
Team play is another story, as experienced players teaming up with COOPERATIVE newer players can guide them through good strategies. Best way to learn IMHO.
And that goes back to the COMFORT ZONE I referred to, I will play “0” bid against newbies as thew Axis, but I insist that they take 9IPC if they want to play the Axis.
I do it all the time on line and when teaching new players here at home.
So, bid or no bid, Happy Gaming! -
I am extremely confident that I can take most players down if they have the axis w/an 8 bid.
I will bid no lower than 9 myself as I don’t want to under estimate my opponent’s skill set as the allies and assume they know what they are doing.
In my Tourney game against both Switch and Darth I bid 12 since I highly respect their skill.
I believe that the axis, with an 9 bid, still need to have sound strats, make no mistakes and require some luck to beat me.
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@JWW:
I believe that the axis, with an 9 bid, still need to have sound strats, make no mistakes and require some luck to beat me.
yes, it still comes down to 3 on 2, so the allies have that Ace in their pocket.
Another part of the ‘no mistakes’ that you refer to is bringing the right number of units into a battle, expecially in the eastern european theatre of war. often times the allies can go ‘cheap’ with aircraft and ground units and if one allied player fails to kill/take, then next reaps the benefits. Germany doesn’t get this sort of ‘rebound’ / tip-in play with Japan.
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Then there are those of us who think the game is pretty well balanced (apart from OOB NAs :-P), and regard the bid as completely unnecessary, and ridiculous as well for that matter. By the time you get down to 5-6 IPCs, which some people can’t play with less than that, we are talking about 1-2 infantry or a tank. To be honest the usefulness of that, while nice in the beginning, is hardly enough to tip the balance significantly in any way shape or form in comparison to having some good tactics and long range strategy. In fact luck will have more effect than that. Germany starts out with 10 tanks and ~25 infantry last I checked, another one will hardly be the difference between balance and imbalance IMO.
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Then there are those of us who think the game is pretty well balanced (apart from OOB NAs :-P), and regard the bid as completely unnecessary, and ridiculous as well for that matter. By the time you get down to 5-6 IPCs, which some people can’t play with less than that, we are talking about 1-2 infantry or a tank. To be honest the usefulness of that, while nice in the beginning, is hardly enough to tip the balance significantly in any way shape or form in comparison to having some good tactics and long range strategy. In fact luck will have more effect than that. Germany starts out with 10 tanks and ~25 infantry last I checked, another one will hardly be the difference between balance and imbalance IMO.
Well I beg to differ.
An extra 2 units in Africa keeps UK from counter attacking AES UK1.
There is a huge money swing as a result. No, not the mere $2 that is AES, I refer to the rapid expansion of Germany that would occur on G2 if those forces are left unmolested. Also, Germany usually needs to ship more units to Africa G2 if AES if countered on UK1. Other wise, Germany might use those troops in Europe or via the transport to Ukraine or such G2. -
I can only agree. This game is not all about numbers of units, don’t take me wrong the numbers of units count in the long run, but more important is position e.g. 20 german arm in Weu are not worth as much as the same 20 arm in Ukr, so 1 or 2 units placed at the crucial points on the startup map, make all the diffrence.
IMO the german player would have to strech himself quite thin to retake Ukr, do Egy and kill the BB if he had no bid units.
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Also an extra inf in Ukraine can often translate into a surviving fighter which will make A LOT of difference in turn 1 and throughout the game.
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A Russia round 1 attack on Ukraine is a dangerous weapon. It kills the fighter but Russia generally loses their tanks in the process, and can’t hold the territory. Trying to go for West Russia on the same round can be really risky. Trust me I’ve been bit by this as Russia.
There’s a simple solution for the problem in Africa. Use the transport to drop another tank and infantry down there, use the battleship and maybe another fighter to clear the destroyer. IMO taking Anglo Egypt on round 1, with at least 2 tanks is critical to the German victory. If you fail to close the Suez, and fail to kill that fighter and tank, you will regret it the rest of the game. Next UK turn they can have an aircraft carrier, two destroyers, a transport, and two fighters in the Med. Trust me this is the last thing you want to deal with as Germany. If you want you can even have a fighter and Bomber assist in Anglo. Then have the sub from SZ8 and a couple of fighters hit the battleship. How many fighters depends on how lucky you’re feeling. :-D
On G1 the Germans can only hit Ukraine if it has been taken, or take Karelia pretty much, since Archangel is out of range and West Russia often has 9 infantry + tanks + artillery. So you’re really not losing much sending your aircraft out of Europe for round one, as long as you get them back quickly for the next round.
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FYI the bid is a faily solid concensus from players here as well as TripleA
Then there are those of us who think the game is pretty well balanced (apart from OOB NAs :-P), and regard the bid as completely unnecessary, and ridiculous as well for that matter.
I think you just need to be exposed to a wider player group.
Have you played online before?There’s a simple solution for the problem in Africa. Use the transport to drop another tank and infantry down there, use the battleship and maybe another fighter to clear the destroyer.
We know there is a transport. But it just won’t cut it. Try AACalc.
Germany takes Egypt
35% 2 Arm, 1 Fig
14% 1 Arm, 1 FigUK would counterattack on UK1 with 3 Inf 1 Fig
83% -
No, they would not.
And yes I have played online. But primarily as the Allies. I spend most of my time outside the game working on Axis strategies, and testing their feasibility on triple a.
You forget, I’m not pitting 2 tnks, and 2 inf vs 1 inf 1 tnk and 1 ftr in Anglo. I’m adding a fighter and bomber to my attack as well. The UK is dead, and my two tanks are still alive and kicking. (yet to run to the dice in a situation where this doesn’t happen, I often lose 2 inf, not always though).
Believe me I know how significant Anglo is. I got to have so much fun playing Britain when the other player didn’t take it. :-D
Oh and I just tested the taking of Ukraine and West Russia round one for the Russians. With a lack of offensive firepower in West Russia the battle was able to go on longer, and Russia lost 4 inf as a result. In Ukraine as I predicted the Russian tanks were destroyed, cause they were left behind after the battle exposed to the German counterattack. Which I did with only inf and planes cause I didn’t want to lose any tanks. This turned out to be a lousy plan as without aircraft support in Anglo (forgot about that, don’t remember so well when I’m just testing scenarios and not playing a game). So Germany would probably have to drop a couple tanks. But fewer than Russia, and I still took Anglo on G1 and took out the entire British med fleet.
This was with above average luck in Ukraine by the way, as the Germans went down in one round and the Russians didn’t lose much. I’ve played Russia before and tried a R1 attack only to have it blow up in my face when the fighter and maybe a tank survive and my attacking force is killed.
So it’s not necessarily a horrible strategy, but it’s risky, it hurts Russia a lot to lose those tanks right away, and Germany is hardly crippled.
I’m not necessarily saying you’re all wrong. You are probably much more experienced than I am. I’m just not not convinced the Axis need a bonus, unless the allied players are more experienced.
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None of that stopping the UK from retaking Egypt on round one, which is what a lot of bids are based on.
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None of that stopping the UK from retaking Egypt on round one, which is what a lot of bids are based on.
Um yeah it does. Round two the UK, at best, are pitting an Infantry and a fighter against 2 tnks, if not an infantry or two as well. Unless you brought in the Infantry from Persia, in that case India is going to die in the next round unless you have Colonial Garrison. And if you have Colonial Garrison that fighter should really be helping harass the Japanese. Usually it’s going to be an inf or two and the fighter, vs two tanks and maybe some infantry as well.
Oh and I fail to see how a bid changes anything. Most bids average out around 9 right? That’s an extra tank and infantry for Anglo G1 we’ll say. Wow that’s exactly the same as I brought in with the transport. Despite the fact that I rarely see that transport dropping troops in Anglo round one, usually it’s taking Gibraltar while the battleship takes out the UK battleship. So in most games I’m guessing the bid just takes the place of some different axis strategy. Oh and with a bid of ~9 you can’t play both sides. Meaning you can’t have infantry in Ukraine AND more troops in Africa. It’s either one or the other. So maybe I’m missing something, maybe balance is far more delicate than I would have thought reasonable to consider. I just can’t see how the bid is necessary.
Well when I get some time maybe I’ll try a game sometime as Axis, see if someone goes and kicks my butt and make me eat my words and wish for a bid. :-D
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UK round one. Infantry from Trans-Jordan, 2 Infantry from India via transport, fighter from Indian Ocean Carrier, and bomber from England. Versus 1 Infantry 2 Tanks the out come is 92.8% for the attacker. Give Germany an extra infantry and it is still 71.1% in UK’s favor. Leaving the Suez open and going after Gibraltar round 1 with Germany is not a good move.
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Well when I get some time maybe I’ll try a game sometime as Axis, see if someone goes and kicks my butt and make me eat my words and wish for a bid. :-D
Allied game play has greatly improved.
Players can KGF very effectively, Japan takes too long to get to Russia.
Axis need help to get out of the gate (especially if they have some bad dice)
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