People on FB and here are continuing the discussion of subs–worthless or worthy, so I’ma gonna pull this plan back up to the top as an example of a detailed, sub based plan.
Operation Herkules
-
I plan to execute a form of Operation Herkules (Invasion of Malta) in my next game with Germany to help Italy in the Med by destroying all the RAF aircrafts on the island on G2.
G1 buying
-2 Strategic Bombers 24 IPCs
-The rest could be a sub, 2 INF, ART, MECH to send against Russia or maybe to capture Gibraltar.On G2, I will send the four Strategic Bombers to strafe everything on Malta. Thus will allow Italy to start reinforcing Africa I1 without having her TT sunk and start building a navy (with another TT!) and operate in the Med more easily.
Sure it will be costly for Germany but it could accord one turn of bad spending and it could vive Italy a head start.
Is anyone ever tried something like that?
-
I’d like to land in Tobruk I1 with the TT and regroup all the Italian stuff at this place to start my advance toward Egypt I2 with additional ground and air reinforment for the capture of Cairo I3.
-
Is your plan going to change if they land allied aircraft in Syria? which is equidistant for them to Malta?
I mean - it sounds like fun don’t get me wrong, but seems alot of focus for only a little gain.
-
I’ve done this and it, like anything, has sacrifices. It might mean a long game and trouble getting started on Russia.
Here is what I tried:
G1: buy 2 bombers and save 6 ipc
Land what fighters/tacticals you can spare in S. Italy. If clearing the Med is the priority, 2 subs hit the UK cruiser off Gibraltor so your Italian ship off Malta has a chance to destroy the UK fighter.
Don’t forget that planes on Holland/Belgium can also hit ships in the water off Italy G2, but bombers can NOT hit Malta from there.I1: scramble for Taranto raid - you want UK to lose as many units now as possible - if you’re lucky he’ll sacrifice a fighter or two to keep his carrier, etc. This let’s your Italian fighters defend at 4 but you lose out on other options on your turn, like Greece, etc.
G2: As always, if UK is dumb, go ahead and prep for Sea Lion, but other than buying units for Russia, one option is carrier/transport for S.France (or try to bring the transport Germany starts with to Gibraltor, etc). Anything Germany places on S. France will end up protecting Italian ships going forward but you probably need to replace planes so I buy new bombers so I know I can hit London on G3 and Moscow going forward.
-
Is your plan going to change if they land allied aircraft in Syria? which is equidistant for them to Malta?
I mean - it sounds like fun don’t get me wrong, but seems alot of focus for only a little gain.
Syria is even better. My goal is to get rid of most of the RAF threat. Without the Maltese AA gun, it would be easier for the Luftwaffe to kill them. It would gives the benefit of more freedom of operation for the small Regia Marina and remove defense for Cairo.
As always, if UK is dumb, go ahead and prep for Sea Lion
In my last game, I wanted to go for Malta but my opponent didn’t buy enough stuff on G-B so I went for Sea Lion instead of Malta and captured London easily. I never had the chance to do Hercules yet but I’d like to try it next game.
-
Unless you’re adding an NO for Malta, taking the island serves no purpose in G40 as it does not have the same power it did during WWII.
-
I love the idea of an airbase on Malta which gives it much more significance.
-
The idea of getting rid of the UK planes as fast as possible, before they can sit behind a stack of ground troops, is interesting and would certainly result in a weaker Egypt. How do plan to handle being behind against Russia as a result of your two strat bomber purchase?
Marsh
-
@Sire:
Is your plan going to change if they land allied aircraft in Syria? which is equidistant for them to Malta?
Syria is even better. My goal is to get rid of most of the RAF threat. Without the Maltese AA gun, it would be easier for the Luftwaffe to kill them. It would gives the benefit of more freedom of operation for the small Regia Marina and remove defense for Cairo.
The German planes in Southern Italy won’t be able to reach Syria unless Italy was able to secure Greece on I1. If that’s the case (Greece is not Axis-controlled) you would need to commit all your strat bombers to Syria, correct?
Marsh
-
2 bombers and 1 sub is a very mainstream G1 buy, so there’s nothing wrong with that purchase. It’s also reasonable to land a couple of German fighters in Rome; you have lots of fighters and at least a couple of them are usually able to land there. There’s also nothing too weird about attacking the British cruiser near Gibraltar with 1 or 2 German subs on G1 – it’s a legitimate target.
So really the only Herkules-specific part of your plan is to airblitz Malta on G2. That sounds like it could…sometimes be a good idea, depending on exactly what’s been happening in the Mediterranean. If Britain has a carrier group that survived anywhere near Rome, then you probably want to use all available aircraft to hit that carrier group; it’s just a more valuable and more fragile target. If Britain has an army in Alexandria or Tobruk, you might want to airblitz the army, instead. If you lost German fighters while scrambling to defend Taranto, then you may not have enough power to attack a heavily defended Malta – an AAA plus 3 fighters is a pretty hardened target, and you could lose badly if you attack with, e.g., 1 fighter and 4 strategic bombers.
All of that said, it’s reasonable for Germany to try to attack Britain and support Italy on the first two turns, and attacking Malta could sometimes be a good way to do that.
Personally, I think the obsession with conquering Egypt early is somewhat misplaced – Cairo should be the capstone of a successful Italian expansion, not the first step toward empire. If Italy (with modest German help) clears the Med and takes Marseilles, Greece, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Tunis, Syria, Iraq, and Gibraltar, then Italy can rake in 33 IPCs per turn – enough to match the UK Europe economy. At that point, then they can start pressuring Cairo. This will either force the UK to continuously spend its entire economy defending a fixed point (which is a win for the Axis because it deprives Moscow of support), or give up Egypt (and allow Italy to continue to expand, since Italy will now be outproducing the UK).
Of course, if the Americans come in hard against Italy, then you’re not going to see that kind of expansion – but you’re also not going to be able to hold Egypt for long, so it’s sort of a moot point.
-
I think that Egypt early is worth a high price. However, it isn’t worth a high price if you fail to take it, obviously.
I don’t think the plan outlined means Egypt should fall.
-
I think that Egypt early is worth a high price. However, it isn’t worth a high price if you fail to take it, obviously.
I don’t think the plan outlined means Egypt should fall.
If I have a 30+% chance of taking egypt on I2 I will almost always go for it, probably like 9 out of 10 times. My style of play is not very aggressive compared to many others. I think taking Egypt early is very valuable because it forces the british to focus on capturing Egypt back instead of fighting Germany (the main enemy)
Hence it might be a good plan to airstrike malta to prevent the additional air support which typically is headed for Egypt on british 2. I guess the typical units on malta end of round 1 is: 1AA, 1 inf, 1 bomber, 1 tac and 1 fighter. Going in with anything less than 4 bombers and 2 other plains is too weak. Clearly doable, but probably means you have to skip 111, but hey maybe that is ok as you in any case want to take out the cruiser in 91. Maybe this is pretty good, dont know
-
From my point of view it’s all situational.
Buying 2 Bombers G1 is always a viable buy.
However attacking Malta wouldn’t be my first priority.
If there’s a British fleet in the med in range that should be priority 1, since that annoys Italy the most.
Next in line would be a stack of ground forces in Alexandria.
Malta could be done, but it’s a high risk operation.
-
@Marshmallow:
The idea of getting rid of the UK planes as fast as possible, before they can sit behind a stack of ground troops, is interesting and would certainly result in a weaker Egypt. How do plan to handle being behind against Russia as a result of your two strat bomber purchase?
Marsh
G2 buys and beyond would be ground troops to invade Russia. I agree with you that it will be harder against Russia but it’s still possible. 2 rounds without serious ground troops purchase would place Germany in serious troubles.
The German planes in Southern Italy won’t be able to reach Syria unless Italy was able to secure Greece on I1. If that’s the case (Greece is not Axis-controlled) you would need to commit all your strat bombers to Syria, correct?
Only the four Strategic Bombers have enough range to do the raid on Malta or Syria. It could be possible to bring smaller planes if they were landed G1 in Southern Italy and did not scramble during the Taranto raid. I won’t do the raid with four Strategic Bombers if there is more than 1 AA gun, 1 Inf, 1 Fighter and 1 Strategic Bomber on the island. I’ll use those Bombers instead to threathen Sealion and against Russia.
-
But in the end, it doesn’t matter as taking Malta in G40 is pointless. It does not hold the same power it did during the real war where it can deny Italian merchant shipping to Africa.
-
It might be better if done as a 1-2 punch.
On Italy -1 …The one Italian TR unloads a Tank+Inf on Malta. ( The UK CRU being eliminated by Italian Sub+Air)… Mayyybe also Use Italian SBR on the Land attack… (hoping for the AAA to miss)
The Tank hit it likely taken by the UK on the AAAON Germany -2… Hit with 4 SBRs
Very very risky… but doable… more so on live games… than in Low-luck Triple A
Suggested Topics
