Soviet Armies in the Far East

[ABWorsham4]

Curious about your thoughts and experiences in playing many G40 games.

[taamvan]

If you send all (or almost all) of them home, they will arrive just in time to save Moscow.  Whether they can save all Russia, or preserve any income left, is the challenge.

If you leave them all in the East (but avoid exposing them to a massive Japanese attack by leaving them on the coast and esp. before J3), they may dissuade Japan from walking all over you.  However, the lack of any attack units or backup besides the Mongolian 6 infantry means that you will not be able to attack effectively without a bid, or a fighter, which you cannot realistically spare.

You could send a couple better units over there to help, but you will still probably be falling back.  Since Japan can go through China, he can still attack your exposed income even if you make a bold stand up north.  He can also decline to attack you at all, until that point in the game where he is crossing china (J4,5) so leaving the stuff over there risks idling it.

Best moves are to 1) consolidate turn R1 2) watch what japan is doing and whether he will have any transports to attack you after J3 3) only step up/leave what is necessary to protect your income and dissuade an attack.

Its probably just simpler to move everything home at top speed, and let him shred your income, since you can’t do much to stop it anyways (and Moscow is critical), if that is the Japan plan.

[Witt]

I send all back, Worsham. Moscow must be held and these 20
Units can sometimes make the difference. I do like how they can always pop into Western China, as an alternative, and help prop up the Chinese.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I leave them in the East. Several reasons for this; It helps make Japan think about NOT doing an invasion of USSR right from the get go, it stops them from jacking loose Soviet territories, and it helps the Pacific allies in a pinch.

[GeneralHandGrenade]

I leave 6 on Amur and take the rest back as fast as possible. If you combine those 6 with the 6 from Mongolia it provides a speed bump large enough to make Japan commit enough resources that they have to sacrifice another target like China, or the Money Islands, or Calcutta, or building an effective navy that can take on the US. The other 14 units make a big difference in the defence of Moscow either from Germany or from Japan by way of China.They always seem to show up just in the nick of time. My hope is that Japan will see those 6 infantry on Amur as no threat to them and will leave them alone so that I can concentrate my units on the threat from Europe.

[Amalec]

I send 12 Inf 1 AA back to Moscow and leave 6 Inf 1 AA in the East. It’s enough to get Moscow the manpower it needs while still keeping Japan honest*. They’ll usually be worth most of their value in preserved income by the time Germany can realistically attack Moscow anyway, and will pay off and then some if you dissuade Japan from the Far East altogether.

*They can’t blitz through with a tank amphib’d in and leave Mongolia inactive.
*They can’t blitz - they need to push you back a single province at a time.
*They’ll need to commit significant ground forces they don’t have and/or position significant parts of it’s airforce to hit your stack, at which point you simply pull back and tie them up longer.
*They can support future Ameircan landings if they survive.

[oysteilo]

there are tons of posts on this topic. I think some important guidelines are
1. What does Germany buy? If Navy, you can put all 20 in buryatia
2. If Germany buy planes, men or a combo, retreat all units 1 space. For plane buy consider moving all or some back R2
3. It is also important what you plan to do with America? Europe first? Then it is easier for those men to stick around. Japan first? More important to go to Moscow

It is not a yes or no question. It also depends on what you feel like. Sometimes it is EXTREMLY powerful for those men to just start walking through china if you have the opportunity!

[Omega1759]

With a bid, I like to add some artillery to make this stack a greater offensive power and add a bit to the defense potential.

[Caesar-Seriona]

@oysteilo:

there are tons of posts on this topic. I think some important guidelines are
1. What does Germany buy? If Navy, you can put all 20 in buryatia
2. If Germany buy planes, men or a combo, retreat all units 1 space. For plane buy consider moving all or some back R2
3. It is also important what you plan to do with America? Europe first? Then it is easier for those men to stick around. Japan first? More important to go to Moscow

It is not a yes or no question. It also depends on what you feel like. Sometimes it is EXTREMLY powerful for those men to just start walking through china if you have the opportunity!

I don’t think it matters what Germany or Italy buys. In theory, UK and US should keep those nations in check, yes they will have to help USSR anyways but what you leave in the east shouldn’t affect what happens in the West. I have yet to see any situation where I needed to move Soviet infantry in the east to Moscow.

[WILD BILL]

@Amalec:

I send 12 Inf 1 AA back to Moscow and leave 6 Inf 1 AA in the East. It’s enough to get Moscow the manpower it needs while still keeping Japan honest*. They’ll usually be worth most of their value in preserved income by the time Germany can realistically attack Moscow anyway, and will pay off and then some if you dissuade Japan from the Far East altogether.

I said 30% of the time, but really I split them up sending most towards Moscow (didn’t have a split in the poll)

This is what I would normally do as well. 6 inf+AA stay to block Japan from easily taking my northern territories, and the other 12 +AA head back to defend Moscow. Plus I also find that the Japanese often pushes through China to my back door, and those Far East units are better use to me if they help prop up the Chinese wall or are in range to set-up defenses on Red territories as the Japanese close in (protecting the back door).

The only way I would leave them all out in nowhere land is if the allies are going all in on Japan and you might need those Russians to either take a hit chewing up Japanese units/air power, or to assist/def getting US units on the Russian/Chinese/Korean coast.

[Jennifer]

It’s really hard to say.  Depending on my opponent, I might have Russia go hard into China early in the game to neuter Japan because I know my opponent doesn’t like to DOW early with Germany - in that case, I am sending armor, fighters and walking the infantry around Mongolia into China to help push the Japanese back.  Along with this is usually a British DOW on Japan to add even more reinforcements (idea being a round or two with the Burma road open makes China almost impossible to crush).  It only takes a few rounds and from there you have time to run the hard hitters back to Moscow to defend.

If my opponent usually goes hard ground forces in Germany, I might run the SFE troops back ASAP to Moscow in hopes that the extra few D6 on defense can delay the Germans until American and British armies can open a second front.

[Caesar-Seriona]

I want the opinions of the players who say they always send them west. Why do you think it’s a good idea to leave all your east open for Japan, I get it that you’re trading around 10 ICP worth of territories for 18 infantry and 2 AA guns but you are giving Japan a better position with the possibility of capturing you and/or entering China and UK from the West.

[taamvan]

Well, without any offensive threat, its not as if you are holding down a ton of Japanese assets; and if you stay near the coast, Japan can use its air-lightsaber to annihilate you.  So, best case scenario you hold some of your land but the troops are paralyzed over there.

Then, if Germany is focused, they take Moscow, so you didn’t really do anything but preserve some extra $$ for Germany to take for their war-effort.

It sure ISNT a good idea to lose all that eastern land, most good Axis strategies have some plan to suffocate Russia’s income and the best approach includes trimming USSR east and also hacking them apart from the china-side once japan has run through all those troops.  The really good money is right behind Moscow, but if all 3 axis are dogpiling Russia, this backdoor is left open for Japan to take it all, there isn’t much you can do as USSR if they stay dedicated to this plan because you cant both counterattack and protect the capital.  If Japan has other goals, that $8-$10 in eastern income for 4 turns can make a huge difference in Russia survival.

So you can stand and fight, but its a stalemate at best and you are going to still lose your income and possibly get surrounded without threatening japan much…and if you lose your capital, it was all a sideshow anyways…

Or most of the guys can run for Moscow, where they might make the difference and buy you some time for Moscow to survive…in a game where the Axis’ only big plan is to kill Russia, if they fail to take it by turn 7-8, that’s the point in the game when the Western Allies can exert some real pressure on the Axis and start the life-support.

If Germany takes Russia’s $$, you’re in deep crap because not only is Moscow not even a distraction anymore, but Germany has $100 to push the Western Allies back that next turn…after that they have little chance of defeating Germany…

TL;DR=protect your capitol at all costs…

[Zhukov44]

@Caesar:

I want the opinions of the players who say they always send them west. Why do you think it’s a good idea to leave all your east open for Japan, I get it that you’re trading around 10 ICP worth of territories for 18 infantry and 2 AA guns but you are giving Japan a better position with the possibility of capturing you and/or entering China and UK from the West.

The reason I usually retreat them is because I need them to prop up China (or Moscow).  I’ll decide around Round 3 whether I’m retreating these units to Russia (if Germany is targeting Moscow on G8) or help out China.  It’s common for the Chinese army to be forced to retreat towards Moscow.  Sometimes combining with the retreating Siberian troops is the only way to keep China alive.  Note that if Japan breaks the Mongolia pact, these Russian units could march through Mongolia into China.

This dynamic is very different in the balanced mod where Russia can’t intervene in China.