Should Germany take Egypt first turn?

I’m starting to lean towards a Destroyer buy for Italy early on.  A second transport eventually won’t hurt since now you can fire all three broadsides at enemy combatants, but the destroyer at least protects you from Sub-stalling! (About the ONLY thing that Russian submarine is good for!)

@Cmdr:

I’m starting to lean towards a Destroyer buy for Italy early on.  A second transport eventually won’t hurt since now you can fire all three broadsides at enemy combatants, but the destroyer at least protects you from Sub-stalling! (About the ONLY thing that Russian submarine is good for!)

There is NO substalling in this game

You can always ignore the sub just like you can ignore a transport

Really, the russian sub is pretty worthless in this game now.

Really?  The submarine doesn’t even stop the transport from moving into the sea zone, picking up units and moving out?

@Cmdr:

Really?  The submarine doesn’t even stop the transport from moving into the sea zone, picking up units and moving out?

nope.

You can only block this activity with a DD, a/c, CA, or BB

Wish I had known that a bit earlier….coulda saved me some headaches I have now…oh well.

@Cmdr:

Wish I had known that a bit earlier….coulda saved me some headaches I have now…oh well.

Old habits are hard to break…

I’ve read many a player admit to leave unescorted tpts on mistake as well

I do believe the new naval rules make it a much better game.

Oh I agree!  Navy is more fun now, and I’ve always been a big navy girl! (Hence my title as Fleet Killer.)  The new sea zones in the Pacific really help too.

U-505 I would welcome the chance to play you but at the moment I have 6 games going on with another one probably about to start. Perhaps soon as some of these games finish up we can play a game. I honestly think you are making too many assumptions of Axis troop dispositions and positions.

I’ll take you up any time, 505.  Just let me know. :)

Then again, I’m hungry for games because once Feb hits, I’m gunna have to cut WAY back again.

Ok here is the new take and it has nothing to do with this attack or not attack Egypt on G1 strategy.

UK can easily wipe out the entire Italian fleet one turn latter and your just doing a risky battle ( with 30-40% success) to allow it to survive one EXTRA TURN.

UK just builds in Caucasus after another turns worth of purchases.

So Under my system i stock pile 4 land units ( 2 tanks and 2 inf) and take Egypt on G2 and i take it strong and w/o huge loses.

Also the allocation of German air assets to sink the UK fleets (5 ships gone) is achieved w/o major loses, but lost if played any other turn.

Under the G1 Egypt you get massacred and lose most of your units only to forestall the survivability of Italian fleet for ONE extra turn.

If a very simple choice.

How are you taking Egypt “strong?”

You don’t take Egypt on Germany 1.

England reinforces with 2 Infantry (at least) and sinks the SZ 14 Italian Fleet on UK 1.

Now it’s 2 Infantry, Artillery, 2 Armor vs 4 Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Fighter(s)

Your odds just got worse!

MY plan:

Now it’s 4 Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Fighter(s)= 17

vs:

3 tanks, 1 art, 4 infantry, 1 bomber, 3 fighters on G2= 29

followed by Italy with 3 infantry, 1 tank, 1 fighter= 9

your plan:

UK: 2 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fighter= 13

VS:

2 tanks, 2 inf, 1 art, 1 bomber plus ? 15?

Your plan can lose the entire Italian fleet by UK3

My plan can lose the entire Italian fleet by UK2

You plan allows the landing of 2 extra land units, while my plan is a much better attack and saves the potential defeat of the battle itself for africa, and also for greater loses performing a risky battle. I suspect in your battle you will lose at least 2 more pieces than i will and gaining just 2 IPC for these efforts, while i take out 5 UK ships for a few lost subs.

Also, since i take egypt strong on G2 the UK bombers also die because landing in Jordan commits them to die on Italian 2 or G3.

Also, consider the italians buy that destroyer, and the ensuing battle its 4,4,4,3–-vs. 4…3.3.2, which is kinda worse that your own Egypt G1 attack in terms of success. ( remember the Italian BB is 2 hits)

How are you getting the extra infantry and tank?

And you are positioning your fighters in Bulgaria?  So you are leaving France/NW Europe, Scandinavia and SZ 5 open to England?

How are you getting the extra infantry and tank?

On G1 the Germans medd tranny drops off a tank and inf. The morroco inf moves right
On G2 Germany lands 1 tank and 1 inf, plus all the junk from Libya

And you are positioning your fighters in Bulgaria?  So you are leaving France/NW Europe, Scandinavia and SZ 5 open to England?

2 fighters land in morroco from killing SZ 12 and third German fighter in france, bomber is out of reach actually because it must land in Norway, but i can switch out the allocations to allow a bomber in Sz12 and include the Bomber, but its not the best move IMO.

3 tanks, 1 art, 4 infantry, 0-1 bombers, and 3 fighters on G2= 29, but also remember i can build an additional German bomber on G1 for additional safety for the attack.

Okay, but don’t forget, England’s going to see you stacking Libya like no tomorrow and you’ll have to have equipment in Italy or Bulgaria to use to invade.

England’s not just going to sit there and watch.  They’ll most likely pull out of Egypt and build up bombers to sink the Med fleet.

You’ll have 4 Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Fighter(s) in Jordan instead of Egypt, and you’ll have 4 Bombers prepped and on the tarmac to hit Egypt next round if they don’t get a juicy Med Fleet target.

Really, you only have that first round to hit Egypt.  You are not getting a second chance at that fighter.

BTW, the ensuing SZ 14 battle is miscalculated on your end:

If Italy buys the Destroyer:

Italy: 4, 3, 3, 2
England: 4, 4, 4, 4, 3
(4 Bombers, 1 Fighter)

Assumes no ships in SZ 12

I think if Italy sees a 3 bomber buy on UK1, they should just go and be the best little brother they can be and support Germany in Ukraine (in what ever capacity is needed: add units or offshore into caucasus)

With $36 spend on planes, there won’t be much bad door pressure on Germany.

Germany can also pull some units from africa on G2 to Bulgaria/ukraine/caucasus.

Okay, but don’t forget, England’s going to see you stacking Libya like no tomorrow and you’ll have to have equipment in Italy or Bulgaria to use to invade.

England’s not just going to sit there and watch.  They’ll most likely pull out of Egypt and build up bombers to sink the Med fleet.

well thats also true, but if i saw that id have Italy take out both Egypt and Jordan and if they fail at one of these G2 will finish the job and deny the bombers landing space. IN any event the Italian fleet dies on UK2 or UK3…

and then there is the new idea about dispersing the fleet which has yet to be looked at. I advise to move the two transports separately from the warships because they are not hit allocations: so its 1 AP, 1 AP, and 1BB, 2CA, 1DD

Now thats forces 1 bomber  and another bomber to allocate on both transports and 4,4,3 against 4(2),3,3,2…which means i save my fleet and UK loses its bombers, because Japan has fighters at threes hitting bombers that may escape, unless they go to Caucasus.

You’ll have 4 Infantry, Artillery, Armor, Fighter(s) in Jordan instead of Egypt, and you’ll have 4 Bombers prepped and on the tarmac to hit Egypt next round if they don’t get a juicy Med Fleet target.

Well on I1 we take Jordan and on G2 Egypt falls… bombers have no home. If you retreat to Jordan entirely, then on I1, Italy takes Egypt and the German tanks blitz and Germany now has somewhat less: 3 tanks, 1 inf, 3 fighters, 1 bomber= 23

Really, you only have that first round to hit Egypt.  You are not getting a second chance at that fighter.

I agree with this, but i am trading that one fighter for 5 UK ships on alternative G1 air allocations and targets.

BTW your also correct on your other post, but the battle results in pretty much mutual destruction and id like to see that.

If i was UK i would wait a turn and get my bombers in Caucasus anyway, which also gets my bombers away from Japanese intentions.

Unfortunately, UK bombers in Caucasus takes away money from Russia so it is to be avoided if at all possible.

And you have to take into account that if Egypt and Trans-Jordan are taken by the Axis, Allied bombers built in UK on UK2 can’t reach the Italian fleet on UK3 so you would only have the initial UK aircraft and the UK1 builds to contest the Italian fleet. And if the Italian player is smart, their turn 1 build is a fighter and their turn 2 build is a CV making the fleet impervious to all but the most desperate attacks. That’s why the Allies have to play for the UK2 kill or the Italian fleet will get their CV and air cover and survive for 2 more turns, at least. Not the 1 turn like you suggest.

And you also have to account for an Allied attack on Algeria. If you leave 2 German fighters without fodder sitting in Algeria prepared for a second round attack on Trans-Jordan, I would abandon the UK bomber build and take my remaining UK TP with 1 inf, 1 arm supported by the UK bomber and possibly the Egyptian fighter and attack Algeria.

That’s a double bonus for the Allies because it not only kills two German fighters but it also possibly takes Algeria and eliminates an Italian NO unless they send units away from Egypt and counterattack Algeria. That right there weakens the German position because you have to allocate German ground units to cover the fighters.

@axis_roll:

@Cmdr:

Wish I had known that a bit earlier….coulda saved me some headaches I have now…oh well.

Old habits are hard to break…

I’ve read many a player admit to leave unescorted tpts on mistake as well

I do believe the new naval rules make it a much better game.

You know what kind of tweaks me about the new sub rules is that an unescorted transport can load units in sub infested waters, move through more sub infested waters, and finally unload their cargo in yet MORE sub infested waters and never be subjected any attacks whatsoever.

@Cmdr:

I’ll take you up any time, 505.  Just let me know. :)

Then again, I’m hungry for games because once Feb hits, I’m gunna have to cut WAY back again.

Done. Pick the year and the side you want to play and start the game thread.

@a44bigdog:

U-505 I would welcome the chance to play you but at the moment I have 6 games going on with another one probably about to start. Perhaps soon as some of these games finish up we can play a game. I honestly think you are making too many assumptions of Axis troop dispositions and positions.

Fair enough.