NML 1914 Team Game 12

Elrood

That said: skip the Turks Bonuses.

BUT… for the balance of the game… I would like to see some changes in general balance… I mean if a game can essentially be ended after 4 turns… without one side being overly lucky… then there is a problem somehow in the mechanics.

I do not know what we can do about it… but it feels off as it is

Private-Panic

Hi Guys. I have been away for a few days, but see there are messages in my inbox from my allies suggesting we concede, so I believe you are safe to assume we are doing so.

I would like to play in the next game.

I suggest we give France Propaganda at the start of the game.

FMErwinRommel

G captured Paris on turn 5 in games 10 and 12, but only once before in the first 9 games. And Entente had its share of wins. There are many factors involved. Because it is relatively rare, I don’t think France should get a major, permanent bid, such as a tech,
The penalty for losing a capital should be severe. And perhaps the game does need an end game objective, so it doesn’t drag on forever. But the official penalty is a game breaker.
Giving the captor the income for a turn is okay. But denying France any accumulation of income or builds, means it can’t even build trenches for UK and USA to hold onto unconquered territories.

FMErwinRommel

I agree with ending the bid benefit for Turkey. Arabia is out of the game by round 3 or 4. This is historically inaccurate and eliminates the fun, interesting tug of war and guerilla warfare between Turkey and Arabia.

FMErwinRommel

Instead of giving France a bid, perhaps we can reduce the penalty for losing one’s capital. Captor gets all treasury income for that turn. So, nation losing capital can’t build anything next turn. But we could consider allowing it to spend the production income listed on the “players” screen, in subsequent turns. This is very generous and could be reduced. Builds would have to be edited in. No carryover of income would simplify recordkeeping. Game has no provision to spend or roll for tech if capital is captured. So, let’s not change that.

This is the simplest reduction in penalty that I can think of. Requires the least editing. Would have minimal or no impact on capture of capital of small powers such as Italy. Should be applied to all capitals. I do not suggest making this retroactive to the just finished game. It is substantially less punitive than the current rules.
Just a starting point for discussion.

Elrood

@FMErwinRommel way to complicated

FMErwinRommel

We don’t have to modify the penalty for losing a capital. We could just discuss giving France a bid. But in the past, we always ended up just giving a bid to T but no one else. I suggest no bids for any power.

captainwalker

@Elrood said in NML 1914 Team Game 12:

That said: skip the Turks Bonuses.

BUT… for the balance of the game… I would like to see some changes in general balance… I mean if a game can essentially be ended after 4 turns… without one side being overly lucky… then there is a problem somehow in the mechanics.

I do not know what we can do about it… but it feels off as it is

I’m starting to feel like this game is broken. If Germany ignores Africa and the Pac, and focuses on Paris, they should be able to take Paris in 5-7 rounds. And the allies typically surender once Paris is lost…

Witt

I think we need to change the set up, if people want yo keep playing. We need to make the games longer and closer.
Adam suggested Propaganda for France . That would help and, I believe, is more historical. France had a massive army in 1914; Germany’s was larger , because of its better use of the Reserve Divisions.
Give France Propaganda.
Turkey: let’s drop the bonus for them .
Can try that for three games .
I would like to see more Eastern Front Action.
Can we give both England (in England ) and Germany (in Prussia) an IC?

Private-Panic

@Witt Thanks Leo. I am keen to keep playing 1914, as I enjoy it if we avoid an easy G5 victory.

My suggestion is certainly to give F propaganda.

But keep the current T bonus to avoid too big a swing towards the allies before we know how F propaganda affects the game. After-all, GB will have to worry less about reinforcing Paris, allowing it to focus more on T.

An IC for both England and Prussia would be interesting and sounds balanced, as GB can then help R. No strong feelings as to whether to do it or leave it until we see how F’s propaganda bonus affects the game.

On the other hand a quick decision to make one change to the current set up - F propaganda - would avoid endless discussion and allow us to start the next game.

Witt

@Private-Panic I really think we should go for a double change . Mine!
I think Seb quite liked it too.

Elrood

@Witt @Private-Panic

The question is what we want to achieve?
I am guessing: “Incentivizing Germany to go not after Paris but after other Objectives for a prolonged and exciting game.”

If we only give France Propaganda, we do not incentivize Germany but punish it. And it will be more likely to see more Entente Victories given their substantial buff.

If we also add IC to Prussia and England. What would likely happen?
Germany must still put ample resources at its western Front or it will soon be overrun by France and England, which now will be able to build more units and bring them over to the Continent. Or it uses the free Resources they have from not needing to defend Paris to go after Scandinavia / Baltic Fleet. Thus forcing Germany to spend more on that expensive front.

While the IC in Prussia will likely lay dormant, since Germany will have little resources left over after it defended Rhine, Africa, DEI and possibly Mexico.

I think we need to do more for centrals if we go for this change… it benefits Entente too much.

Private-Panic

@Elrood said in NML 1914 Team Game 12:

I think we need to do more for centrals if we go for this change… it benefits Entente too much.

Which is why I said to keep the current T bonus.

Just give F propaganda and play the next game.

We can always add ICs as we see fit in a later game.

Elrood

@Private-Panic all talk of buffs aside…
More impact than any power balance changes we propose here is the player who steers the faction in question.

Private-Panic

@Elrood Absolutely! That is a point that I have made a number of times in the past Seb. I do remember going on about a “gentleman’s agreement” that players choose nations’s in a way that keeps player skill balanced between sides. That principle certainly did not apply in the last game.

dawgoneit

@Private-Panic Why not give france working women? It makes they’re purchase options more wide open.

Private-Panic

@dawgoneit I don’t believe that would be enough Wayne. But if others like it then let’s give it a go.

Elrood

@dawgoneit Would not help really to defend Paris from falling

FMErwinRommel

Elrood correctly sees that giving Propaganda to France and IC in England, will force G to spend all on Western front without taking Paris and so unable to spend more on Eastern front.

Paris fell in 1/4 of our games, but only once in the first 9 games. Look at our games when G fails to take Paris by G5 or G6. France becomes very strong and aggressively confronts Austria in Italy and makes a strong defense against T in N Africa and sometimes India.

G has to have tech luck and go all out early on Paris to have a chance. But when F & UK go all out defense of Paris, and F gets defense tech, G rarely succeeds.
Look at the games where F is lucky at tech, builds max Paris defense from F1; and UK moves Belg units to Paris, builds transports by UK2 and figs by UK3. UK has large garrison in Paris before G5.

Giving F propaganda means 12 infantry in Paris before G5. That’s huge. And when Paris holds on G5, those free builds continue for the rest of the game.

Elrood

@FMErwinRommel @Witt also… I know you both are history buffs and love to see things accurately as they have been also here in the game.
But I like to point this is not a simulation but a game - an abstraction and simplification of reality, and amended to make it enjoyable for both sides. :-)

NML 1914 Team Game 12

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