Italy Sneaks Germans In??

Thanks again for the input.

We ended up getting through 5 rounds, the game is still set up. We are hoping for a Saturday/Sunday finale…

As for what I did, I opted the can-opener route with Italy and purchased mech and tanks for the first 3 rounds. Had to switch to Infantry for rounds 4/5 as the US hasn’t hit land yet but have 12 TT’s and planes and bombers ready to hit anywhere now that Germany’s last DD blocker has been wiped out. Italy did well opening for Germany and I am at the gates of Moscow ready to go for it on G6 although I am not 100% it can be taken thanks to a UK stack of fighters. If I don’t attempt it Russia is gonna get 12 more Inf, 2 AAA from the Soviet Far East plus 3 more UK fighters. And, as I said, the US is going to hit hard.

I kind of think its crazy to leave the UK with large expensive THREE capital ships that you could easily sink and only lose your subs and maybe a plane or the battleship.  At the very least I can see the value in trying to do the battleship retreat.

If you really wanted to convoy UK into oblivion, I’d plan on Barbarossa G3 or G4… buy the G1 bomber and carrier.  Kill as much fleet as you can, retreat the German battleship if there is only 1 UK ship.  2 subs at Canada, ignore cruiser down south… G2 buy depends on if the battleship is alive but you need a destroyer and bombers and 2 or more subs.  1 sub is for sz 125, the destroyer for the Russians, 1+ sub joins the bombers in killing anything at Gibraltor.

I’d also consider taking S. France on G1 so on G2 you can build a carrier and transport there, which protects the Italian fleet and can help out with ground forces.  Puts more pressure on UK in Africa to push their spending all over, not concentrated.

By G3 you’ve got an idea whether you can get away with convoy sz 109.  Maybe the German carrier heads north after turn 3 if Italy gets things under control quickly.

Or if things don’t go Italy’s way, they can buy subs to hit things off Gibraltor, too.

The Med is controlled by the USN with no real threat so the US can take its units in France and dump them to support UK.

@variance:

I remember a game where soulblighter suprised me by making a mad rush on Egypt with luftwaffe supporting Italy.  On G1 he took South France, G2 he built 3 carriers, G4 the fleet moved to Egypt, G5 they were out into the Indian Ocean, and from there he just pushed me back to Hawaii and then Japan got India and Hawaii. It was well timed and creative.

Well, there are 3 Top level German plans to start the war.

#1 Go all in on Sea Lion, you are invading.
#2 Set up for a G2 or G3 Russian Invasion, this would include a sea lion fake.
#3 Go all in on the Med. This would include Germany taking the S. France factory or Building one in Greece or Yugo. This usually means a G4 invasion of Russia.

Option #3 does not get much “play” because it is a slow play plan of attack. Most Germany strategies revolve around a quick strike at Russia and knocking them out before G8.

Option #3 is the most optimal plan of attack IF you are going for a Axis victory in the long term, Turn 10-14. Germany sweeps into the middle east, forms a navy to support the invasion of India, collects around 25+ IPC in NO’s in the middle east and Cacuss and crush Moscow from the south.

There is big upside also to option #3. That means Italy gets full support from Germany and usually will get all its NO’s also and be pumping out 25+ IPC a turn themselves. A very strong italy coupled with a crushing Germany economy never leads to bad things for the Axis powers and usually a Turn 8-10 concession speech from Chamberland.

it would be interesting to see how the famous UK Middle Earth plan of attack works out with a strong Italy and a full effort from Germany pushing in the Middle East.

Germany helping Italy in the Med all depends on if you are looking to knock Russia out with a quick punch or throttle them slowly to death. If you’re taking the long game approach, a German fleet in the Med is worth every IPC. It creates an incredible headache for the Allied player who expects to dominate the Med early. Then it becomes an arms race, and guess who is closer to their supply lines?

And once the Med becomes an arms race, the Allied player often stops buying as much with the US in the Pacific… and Japan can wear down Russia from the back.

Just general thoughts - game by game will obviously be variable.

In the games a played it seemed that Japan could help the European Axis more by getting in positon to have enough victory cities on their side of the map than really pushing towards Russia.  If Japan pushes to Russia then USA is free to keep spending in Europe.  Maybe I will give this a try though with the newer edition of rules.

@manstein39:

@orania:

6 Infantry, 2 Artillery, from S.Germany into Slovakia

How about using those to strafe Yugo for 1 round and then retreat into: Slovakia.

Does Italy need this help?
What are the loss / kill chances?

It’s a common practice, but if you are attacking Russia round 1, you can’t take the chance that you accidentally score 5 hits and conquer Yugo since you need those units for counter attacks on G2.

Correct, Italy can easily take Yugoslavia on their own round 2 or 3 without Germany spreading thin by strafing G1.

That was precisely my thought, McLovin.  I feel, at this point in time, Germany needs a method to produce warships in the Med.  If one allows Italy to take S. France, this - essentially - means that Germany has to build a complex in Yugoslavia.  This may be a good idea in the long run anyway, making it a little easier to reinforce the south against Russia. (OOB this could be a major complex, Alpha 2 I do not think it can.)

I feel an Airbase would be nice to accompany the complex in Yugoslavia, if you go this route, since then you can put 6 fighters in the air for cover air patrol.  But again, if you have S. France, I think you would not need this. (Little harder since you have to build Italy in one zone and Germany in another instead of combined, but much cheaper.)