G40 order of play change

I think this is really a very good idea, since it makes time management in tournament play a lot easier and (as you said in the video) Russia moving west is something happening 99% of the games anyway.

This would be awesome for PBF too. You could also make Italians last.

6 Player Games
Player 1. Germany
Player 2. Italy
Player 3. Japan
Player 4. Soviet Union / China
Player 5. United States / ANZAC
Player 6. United Kingdom / France

“All axis all allies move sequence” like in AARHE

Regarding Italy just have them neutral until their first turn– if that’s the concern you have that they get gimped from the start.

Not sure who to direct this to…

Is there any way to change the order of the countries on triple A so as to have Germany, Japan and Italy turns come first and then the allies in sequence?  I would like to experiment with something like what IL is talking about.  Thanks.

On that topic, Black_Elk suggested this (I slightly edit out reference to Canada as a minor Power)
I bring it here because it may be easier to discuss different order of play by comparison of options:

@Black_Elk:

If fully redesigning the sequence, I’d try to block the turns so it’s more entertaining live, or more streamlined in the pbem exchange. I believe a new turn order requires a full xml mod with separate file (not something you can just toggle with a tech add right now). I’d consider breaking up the Anglo-American turn, which is currently the most involved. I think a sequence with the following blocks would be ideal…

GER
RUS, FRA, USA, CHN
JPN
UKE, UKP, ANZ
ITA

That would take you from 6 pbem exchanges down to just 4, in a given round.

After the opener it’s basically 2 Axis turns and 2 Allied turns, since Italy would piggy back onto Germany after the first round. By changing the US position you give the Allies a can opener rather than just Axis (Italy), at least once the Americans are at war. I think it’s a better distribution for live play as well, since it puts the game into 4 larger blocks, mirroring the old Classic dynamic for both live and remote play.

After the first round the PBF/PBEM exchange breakdown might look like this…

1. Italy/Germany (save)
2. Soviets+France/USA+China (save)
3. Japan (save)
4. UKE/UKP+ANZAC (save)

Less exchanges overall, less total scramble clarifications in a given round etc, to speed things along. In live play you have a pretty easy way to break it apart into 3 player, 4 player, 5 player, and 6 player groupings.

For example…
3 man could be 1 Axis player vs 2 Allied players (Russia/US player block and UK player block.)
4 man could be 2 Axis players vs 2 Allied players.
5 man could be 3 Axis players vs 2 Allied players.
6 man and up, you just start breaking down the Allied blocks.

I really think a new turn order is the most interesting idea we could explore. I brought it up on the first page of this thread, even if it’s been on the back burner lately. Would people be agreeable if we had two standard gamefiles in the HR package? Like one with OOB G40 turn order sequence, and one with a new 4 block turn order sequence?

OOB:
1. Germany
2. Soviet Union
3. Japan
4. United States
5. China
6. United Kingdom
7. Italy
8. ANZAC
9. France

1st Block = Germany (1) / Japan (2)
2nd Block = Russia (3) / USA (4)
3rd Block = China (5) / UK (6)
4th Block = Italy (6) / ANZAC (7)
Last Block = France

@simon33:

This would be awesome for PBF too. You could also make Italians last.

What if…
1st Block = Germany (1) / Japan (2)
2nd Block = Russia (3) / USA (4)
3rd Block = China (5) / UK (6) / ANZAC (7) / France (8 )
4th Block = Italy (9)

It virtually makes all Axis playing same time, then all Allies at same time once the first round is complete by Italy?

It depends what exactly you are trying to achieve in terms of coordinated phases. If all you want is a sequence like…

Block 1: Ger, Jpn, Ita
Block 2: USA, Chn, UKE, UKP, Anz, Fra

Then that is fairly easy. You just edit the section of the xml that specifies the turn order sequence.

If however, you want a game (which I think is what IL describes) where all nation’s on a team can coordinate during a single movement or combat phase, that is more complicated, and I’m not really sure what is achievable in tripleA.

Otherwise, if each nation still has separate movement and combat phases, then it is a pretty quick edit. Might be cool to just make a file like that for people to test on.

Black Elk,  Yes, if you could just create an option for 2nd Edition 40 with the altered turn order, that would be sufficient for my purposes and would be very much appreciated.

I do understand that falls short of what IL is talking about.  However, it would allow some experimentation around this idea.  I think if you simply skip Italy on the first turn, and let the Japanese player non-com East Asia units prior to start it changes very little on the starting set up and 1st turn outcomes. 
However, it may have a significant impact on balance in at least one respect.  Italy could no longer can opener for Germany.  It would have to be the other way around.  That could definitely make it much easier for the Russians to slow the onslaught a bit.

Hi BlueIguana
I don’t remember what you have to do specifically. There were 3 areas that needed changing i think. Anyway here’s where China goes first.

https://www.sendspace.com/file/0wy3ei

so compare to the original and you’ll be good to go. In case you’re not familiar with it, open the zip and put the China first folder in your downloaded maps folder, which is inside your triplea folder.

If you have trouble, here’s the new triplea site

https://forums.triplea-game.org/

a lot of info available there. Let us know how your playtests go. Changing the turn order can help keep the game fresh and/or improve it. I haven’t tried this one yet :)

Thank you Barney.  However, I am afraid that I have no idea what to do even with your description. Not sure what specific file need to be compared to what, for example.  I am afraid that I am not very tech savvy…  :?  :wink:

Here you go BlueIguana

I made the turn order change as you requested…

https://www.sendspace.com/file/joy6nj

basically you extract that file, and place the folder called “Global 40 House Rules” into your mapdownloads folder.
It includes all the other material from the house rules files, so probably more than you’re looking for, but at least it gives you a way to have a look.

Just click past the first turn called “changer” if you’re not interested in any of the other HR stuff. It should play as OOB, just with an All Axis vs All Allies sequence.

There were indeed 3 places that needed to be edited.

The turn order sequence

the individual phase sequence for each nation

and the bid sequence

ps. the Italy neutral thing would have to be player enforced in this file. Although I’m sure there is a way to do that as well, by editing the politics stuff. Also, I only edited the file I use to run tripleA on windows. Let me know if it doesn’t work, and I think I’d have to edit the other xml file that is used by Macs etc.

Pps. To play using YG’s order where only Japan is moved, or any other order, you just open the xml in wordpad or notepad and cut and paste stuff around (in the 3 sections mentioned above), until you have the desired turn order sequence.
:-)

Thank you!!  Will see if I can get it to work.  Can’t wait to play around with this.

No problem man. I should say that when you first extract, you’ll end up with a folder called “Global 40 House Rules Turn Order” but you want to go in there and grab the folder just called “Global 40 House Rules.”

Its because I moved the whole folder into the zip, rather than the individual files. But yeah, hopefully it works for you like it just did for me.
:-)

Hmm… getting an error

“Exception while parsing_Global_40HouseRules_Turn_Order (2).7z not in GZIP format”

What do I do to get around that?

Thanks

@BlueIguana:

Hmm… getting an error

“Exception while parsing_Global_40HouseRules_Turn_Order (2).7z not in GZIP format”

What do I do to get around that?

Thanks

Well I zipped it up with that compression program called 7zip, instead of WinZip since it was free. The contents need to first be extracted and then moved to the mapdownloads folder. Most of the files you get from the download button inside tripleA will be zipped up, but this one should just be a regular folder, when it goes in your mapdownloads. I’m not very tech savvy myself. Maybe Barney or someone at the tripleA site would have a better handle on it. I suppose if I can make the All Axis all Allies one, we might as well make them for every desirable HR turn order. I’ll ask Barney, maybe he can help me figure out how to do it real quick, and we’ll post the xml files for others to use with the various orders described.

Make a few different xml gamefiles for use in TripleA, to match the proposed HR turn orders discussed in this thread.

This one first…
Where you just move Japan ahead of Russia, and otherwise preserve OOB sequence.

@Young:

G40 Russia goes 3rd.

A change to the order of play for quicker game rounds…

I’ve always wanted to put Russia in the 3rd spot in my G40 games to allow 2 players playing at the same time.

1st Block = Germany (1) / Japan (2)
2nd Block = Russia (3) / USA (4)
3rd Block = China (5) / UK (6)
4th Block = Italy (6) / ANZAC (7)
Last Block = France

However, for Russia to give up that kind of initiative advantage, some compensation to the setup is needed for the far east forces… I suggest splitting up the 6 infantry in Amur and dividing them between the remaining stacks, and also giving each territory their own AAA.

Of course… this only works in group games with 4 or more players, and it would be perfect for my up coming tournament to try and speed up games.

Their nation assignments would have to be as follows…

4 Player Games
Player 1. Germany / Italy
Player 2. Japan
Player 3. Soviet Union / United Kingdom / France
Player 4. United States / China / ANZAC

6 Player Games
Player 1. Germany
Player 2. Italy
Player 3. Japan
Player 4. Soviet Union / China
Player 5. United States / ANZAC
Player 6. United Kingdom / France

Then the All Axis vs All Allies one I linked above…
G, J, I vs USA, CHN, UKE/UKP, ITA, ANZ, FRA

And the one I described earlier for the 4 block PBEM exchange.
1. GER
2. RUS, FRA, USA, CHN
3. JPN
4. UKE, UKP, ANZ
5/1. ITA

Any other sequences you want to do?

That sounds great to me, if Barney is willing.  I will keep trying to figure it out in the meantime.  Thank you.

Question about this turn order:

And the one I described earlier for the 4 block PBEM exchange.
1. GER
2. RUS, FRA, USA, CHN
3. JPN
4. UKE, UKP, ANZ
5/1. ITA

How is it possible to not slow down the pace with Italy, if there is one or two can-opener in Europe?
Germany must wait the combat result and Italian NCM before moving its own units in such TTs. Right?

My question is indirectly addressing YG turn order:
1st Block = Germany (1) / Japan (2)
2nd Block = Russia (3) / USA (4)
3rd Block = China (5) / UK (6)
4th Block = Italy (6) / ANZAC (7)
Last Block = France

Because it seems necessary to complete Italy’s turn before starting Germany.
That way, it makes sense to keep ANZAC and France as buffers.

@Black_Elk:

Well I zipped it up with that compression program called 7zip, instead of WinZip since it was free.

http://infozip.org/

I think many people do the following which I think serves the same purpose. Even YG mentioned this in one of his videos as something his group does. It totally went over my head how completely changing the turn order would speed things up much more than the following to change the turn order.  When playing a table top game, often players agree to let Russia move it’s eastern forces (or units from the Europe side to the Pacific side if that’s the plan) however they see fit during the same time as Germany’s turn. Then Japan could start it’s turn while Germany is still finishing up. So it still speeds up the game.

I think Russia going technically after Japan like this could create another disadvantage for the allies who often already receive a bid in many games. Especially when it comes to Russian support in china where they could conduct an attack against Japan 1st and or move two critical AAA guns and a few infantry to Kansu where China might be making it’s last stand around turns 5-7.