@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Or are you saying figs D4 in Dog fights ?
Until you make your mind about all of these changes, this is enough that Fighter dogfight work D@4.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Ok. Wait a min. Are these CR BB two dice rolls against my planes being lowered in cost and A and D. Because my figs don’t defend at 4 it’s 7
I worked under the assumption that basic Naval Fighter were at Cost 10, and other values according to this, not lowered cost adjustment for aircraft.
Ok. Then just one last thing
What are you referring too with figsD@4 ?
A naval fig D@4 only in a Dog Fight ?
OK keep in mind only some nations modified their cruisers as AA gun platforms. USA and to a lessor extent Japan utilized this capability. The elite ships of the German Navy also had this. Otherwise, the Cruiser was a protector for Carriers or long range “hunter”
If your keeping D6, im not in favor of multiple dice. D12 is a much better system for this.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Ok. Then just one last thing
What are you referring too with figsD@4 ?A naval fig D@4 only in a Dog Fight ?
I know that Carriers were only firing at aircraft, since it is A2 D4, I was wondering if you are going to keep every AA roll @3 to keep things simple. Or make Carrier special in that regard with a little higher and lower values.
@Imperious-Leader said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
OK keep in mind only some nations modified their cruisers as AA gun platforms. USA and to a lessor extent Japan utilized this capability. The elite ships of the German Navy also had this. Otherwise, the Cruiser was a protector for Carriers or long range “hunter”
If your keeping D6, im not in favor of multiple dice. D12 is a much better system for this.
No, we are just talking about D12, nothing else. I agree D12 is a much better system when there is many details into the roster and game mechanics.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Ok. Then just one last thing
What are you referring too with figsD@4 ?A naval fig D@4 only in a Dog Fight ?
When I was talking about D@4, it can be understood both ways. Either with your actual Naval Fighter or the yet to implement Fighter with lower cost.
BB and Cruiser with split dice can work for both situations.
@SS-GEN
yea my thinking was if you were concerned with excessive air casualties in the air battle phase you could do something such as, Hit= Die, Miss= Live go onto regular battle and Neutral/No Decision w/e you wanna call it, = doesn’t take place in regular battle but doesn’t Die.
This is represented in regular battle when units miss, but if too many planes either survive or Die in air battle, this would allow another mechanism to regulate the combat.
It could be looked at as a no decision with planes running out of fuel and returning to base after dogfighting or battle damage sustained requiring the same. Not all planes that sustained battle damage were destroyed and not all that did were prevented from completing their mission and engaging in their main, in this case, regular combat either.
Anyway, it may be too tactical for a strategic level game, but thought it could provide an option if air battle casualties were to impactful. So Hit = Die, Miss= Continue, No Result = RTB or Return to Base.
I do follow along here but not 100%, baron can be a little wordy at times : ), so maybe this is already allowed for.
I would love to someday dial your game in for triplea.
Rock On Guys :)
Here’s what I’m going with in next 2 games in 1 weekend.
BB C15 A@3 plane A@6 ship M2 A@3 plane A@3 ship 1 damage
CR C10 A@3 plane A@4 ship M3
CV C14 A@0 D@4 plane M2 A@2 plane 1 damage
CVE C8 A@0 D@2 plane M2
DD C6 A@3 D@3 M2
SS C7 A@5 D@2 M2
TR C7 A@1 D@1 M2 can only take as casualty with planes in battles.
If you take as a casualty you do not get your AD@1shot at a plane.
Fig C10 A@6 D@7 M5 DF A@3 D@3
Tac C10 A@7 D@5 M5 DF@1 Roll a 3 or less can pick target with return shot
N Fig C10 A@5 D@7 M4 DF A@3 D@4
D. Bomb C10 A@7 D@5 M4 DF@1 Roll a 3 or less can pick target with return shot.
Stg. B C10 4 A@3 1 round only. D@2 M6 DF@1 cannot hit Naval ships.
Remember also there is 1 round of Dog fight and Combat. Then all attacking and defending planes can retreat.
Only naval planes can land on Carriers.
For now the changes were to the BB, CR, N. Fig Defense and Cost for N Fig, D bomb
was 11 down to 10.
Baron feel free if you think there needs to be a tweak to a piece here.
You mentioned bringing Carrier C12.
Would be nice if at least the Naval planes went to C9. Even Fig and Tac without changing AD values for planes. If you get Industrial Tech in game certain pieces are -1 in cost. Still got time here to tweak and do some small test battles and a turn 1 test on my map for game in Europe for Germany and UK.
As far as what IL said he basically is saying UK and Italy doesn’t get the AA shots ?
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
CV C14 A@0 D@4 plane M2 A@2 plane 1 damage
CVE C8 A@0 D@2 plane M2
CR C10 A@3 plane A@4 ship M3
DD C6 A@3 D@3 M2
SS C7 A@5 D@2 M2
Thanks SS for providing all these values about your full roster.
Everything seems correct and interesting.
Maybe, Cruiser @4 vs ship may seems too low in comparison to Submarine @5.
Can you rise C10 Cruiser to @5 for regular combat?
My other tweak would be to simplify to the @3 AA basic values as main reference.
So here is my suggestion:
CV C14 A@0 D@4 plane M2 A@3 plane 1 damage
CVE C8 A@0 D@3 plane M2
That way, except for the better @4 AA platform such as a Fleet Carrier or a Naval Fighter, all AA rolls will be “3”.
IMO, it will help to maximize the pace and get use to the special AA roll with Cruiser and Battleship, so everyone will get use to this @3 value.
For now, about C14 Carrier, I’m kind have a mixed feeling about it because with a high C10 aircraft, it is a bless to be able to shot them down @4 so, why lower to C12?
If you ever lower the Naval Fg and DiveBomber around C7, then it may be needed to lower Carrier to C12. Otherwise, I would test at C14 for now.
@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
@SS-GEN
yea my thinking was if you were concerned with excessive air casualties in the air battle phase you could do something such as, Hit= Die, Miss= Live go onto regular battle and Neutral/No Decision w/e you wanna call it, = doesn’t take place in regular battle but doesn’t Die.This is represented in regular battle when units miss, but if too many planes either survive or Die in air battle, this would allow another mechanism to regulate the combat.
It could be looked at as a no decision with planes running out of fuel and returning to base after dogfighting or battle damage sustained requiring the same. Not all planes that sustained battle damage were destroyed and not all that did were prevented from completing their mission and engaging in their main, in this case, regular combat either.
Anyway, it may be too tactical for a strategic level game, but thought it could provide an option if air battle casualties were to impactful. So Hit = Die, Miss= Continue, No Result = RTB or Return to Base.
I do follow along here but not 100%, baron can be a little wordy at times : ), so maybe this is already allowed for.
I would love to someday dial your game in for triplea.
Rock On Guys :)
Hi Barney,
long time, no see.
All because of a lady… :)
Do you know if it is a complex matter to translate the D6 mechanics from Triple A into a D12?
Does someone in the Triple A worked out something about Global into a D12 game?
What is the difference between Miss and No Result in your suggestion?
I don’t see the nuance you want to implement.
I made changes. For carriers it looks like your giving a reg Carrier an Attack value ?
Here’s what I’m seeing. Let me know if this was your intention
CR A@3 plane A@5 ship
C.V. A@3 plane D@3 plane 1 dam AD@2 plane
ECV A0 D@3 plane
Hi baron
Best reason of all : )
Yea D12 is np for triplea.
What i meant about Miss and No Result is in regular combat, plane attacks and it misses it obviously does no damage. With Air battle before regular combat, No Result would give one another mechanism for balancing air units.
Hit kills a plane and goes on to regular battle, miss = no hit in air battle but makes it through to attack in regular battle. No Result would be a major air battle that uses too much fuel or sustain battle damage forcing one to Return To Base.
Basically, if Air Battle phase is to unbalanced because of potentially too many casualties before regular combat, this would give a way to help regulate it. Lower cost of planes, which you guys are doing, will help as well.
i found with air battle and the price of planes in global (the way triplea uses it), it’s a big risk, especially if you’re heavily outnumbered. All your planes could get shot down or not be able to participate in the regular combat. Defender is worse because if you lose ground battle your planes die anyway without getting to fight at all.
Idk, cheaper planes with lower combat values compared to global is probably a bigger balancer, which is what it seems that you guys are doing.
@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Hi baron
Best reason of all : )
Yea D12 is np for triplea.
What i meant about Miss and No Result is in regular combat, plane attacks and it misses it obviously does no damage. With Air battle before regular combat, No Result would give one another mechanism for balancing air units.
Hit kills a plane and goes on to regular battle, miss = no hit in air battle but makes it through to attack in regular battle. No Result would be a major air battle that uses too much fuel or sustain battle damage forcing one to Return To Base.Basically, if Air Battle phase is to unbalanced because of potentially too many casualties before regular combat, this would give a way to help regulate it. Lower cost of planes, which you guys are doing, will help as well.
i found with air battle and the price of planes in global (the way triplea uses it), it’s a big risk, especially if you’re heavily outnumbered. All your planes could get shot down or not be able to participate in the regular combat. Defender is worse because if you lose ground battle your planes die anyway without getting to fight at all.
Idk, cheaper planes with lower combat values compared to global is probably a bigger balancer, which is what it seems that you guys are doing.
Hey Barney I see what your saying. As far as your No Result rule which I still don’t see where it happens but maybe I miss understand it but getting back to your rule there is a rule where you have automatic retreats based on a die roll but that is more complex.
I would be willing to lower all planes except stg bombers to C if 9 if I can get away with it now.
Also I’m a bit hesitant on naval fig D4 in a DF
@SS-GEN yea auto retreat would signify that amongst other things such as miscommunication, breakdowns etc…
Yea I really don’t know your rules well enough to have a real informed opinion : ) just thought that might be another potential option for ya. Yea plane costs will just have to test out, but its good to have baron’s input for starting point. He knows numbers : )
I know you do as well : )
The way triplea works, is you have air battle phase and planes that survive then continue to fight in regular combat phase. If you don’t use your planes in air battle and leave them on the ground, they can’t fight in regular combat. If defending and you lose battle, your planes die.
Your air battle die hit can be different than your regular combat hit but die sides must be the same. So D12 would probably be the biggest balancing factor.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
I made changes. For carriers it looks like your giving a reg Carrier an Attack value ?
Here’s what I’m seeing. Let me know if this was your intention
CR A@3 plane A@5 ship
C.V. A@3 plane D@3 plane 1 dam AD@2 plane
ECV A0 D@3 plane
For the attack value on Carrier, it is up to you.
There is both case for fleet carrier in various games (D12): A0 D4 and A2 D4.
I know that many people advocate that Fleet Carriers were pretty good specialized AA platforms, hence keeping D4 against plane, as you wrote first.
What is your way of seeing Fleet Carriers? What kind of narrative do you apply to them?
I like that Escort Carrier be at A0 D3 vs plane, but Fleet Carrier have to be better.
Cruiser C10 A@3 plane A@5 ship, seems now better as an all around warships.
The auto retreat works like this for ground d12
Ger 12
Italy 10-12
Japan 11-12
Uk 11-12
So let’s say 10 ground attacking 10 defending ground Ger against UK
Ger rolls there normal attack values. They roll
2,3,7,8,8,2,11,12,1,12
Now you count hits but you rolled 2 12s so now those 2 pieces have to retreat before next round of combat. Same would go for UK. Any piece rolling a 11 or 12 would have to retreat also before next round of combat. So for planes in a DF would be the same. Any plane rolling a 12 let’s say has to retreat before combat.
Or after combat round. Ways to play with it
Man you could also go by if you only have 1 or 2 plane movements left you have to retreat after DF and or combat after 1 round due to low fuel because of prolonged combat fight flying.
@SS-GEN
right on that’s pretty much what i was thinking, for air anyway. Could see why you’d do it with ground too.
Good Action
@barnee said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
@SS-GEN
right on that’s pretty much what i was thinking, for air anyway. Could see why you’d do it with ground too.Good Action
Ya plus like a smaller campaign game like Barbarossa it would work . Say a tank has to retreat. Could be due to low fuel, mechanical or damaged. That game also has trucks that you need to transport fuel and supply’s to front line.
Anyway off topic now so I’ll stop.
@SS-GEN said in Global War 1940 2nd ed.:
Also I’m a bit hesitant on naval fig D4 in a DF
Hi SS, what makes you so reluctant about Fighter defending @4 (4/12 is 33%) in a Dogfight?
Most game with DF features allows such Fighter defending with 33% odds.
I’m thinking also about Balanced Mode, which play fighter interceptor and escort @2.
You wrote:
Land-based Fighter C10 A@6 D@7 M5 DF A@3 D@3
Naval Fighter C10 A@5 D@7 M4 DF A@3 D@4
Also, for same 10 IPCs cost, I feel that it is a correct trade off between better offense and range compared to landing on Carriers and a small bonus in dogfight.
You wrote:
Land-based Tactical Bomber
C10 A@7 D@5 M5 DF@1
Roll a 3 or less can pick target with return shot
Naval-based Dive Bomber
C10 A@7 D@5 M4 DF@1
Roll a 3 or less can pick target with return shot.
For same 10 IPCs cost, in that case, there is no trade off between better range compared to landing on Carriers.
In addition, with D12, it may be relevant to use the option to increment Dogfight for these two aircraft. After all, 1 out of 6, is not an OP value.
Maybe, you can improve Dogfight of Naval Dive bomber compared to “Stuka” as Land-based TcBomber. If a single value for A/D is what you are looking for these bombers, then @2 might be also correct.
