Global War 1940 2nd ed.

Yes. There are more Figs in IC TTs.

What I can see is that giving a low combat value to Bomber, here is HStB, is not a deterrent compared to its high mobility.

Maybe if both bombers have same range, it will be possible to see what is most appealing, a low cost C5, no combat value, or a high cost C8, still combat unit.
Bombing damage differential is considered. It is proportionate to cost.
In fact, on a 40 IPCs basis,
8 *D6 damage gives 28 IPCs avg
5 *D6+2 dmg gives 27.5 IPCs avg

I just got to decide if we change cost now in game for bombers or just go with what we have for now. I think best to just keep bomber costs the same and see what the outcome is.
I do love the Stg C5 no value because it can’t just wipe out stuff.

I also just see the Stg bomber C5 hurts the UK more early in game because they can’t get to Berlin like Germany is closer and can make it to London from France or West Germany. Granted UK can bomb West Germany but that IC just gets up to 4 damage max.

@SS:

I just got to decide if we change cost now in game for bombers or just go with what we have for now. I think best to just keep bomber costs the same and see what the outcome is.
I do love the Stg C5 no value because it can’t just wipe out stuff.

I also just see the Stg bomber C5 hurts the UK more early in game because they can’t get to Berlin like Germany is closer and can make it to London from France or West Germany. Granted UK can bomb West Germany but that IC just gets up to 4 damage max.

That situations seems historical-like. B-17 Heavy hitter were able to reach Berlin but not Liberator or Halifax.

Maybe, you can just drop Hvy StB combat values to A0, 0 hit, keeping M7 C8, still A2 D6+2 in SBR.

This will balanced things IMO.
How many Bombers were shot down by Fgs interceptors?

None

Ger 2 bombers 3 figs got 1 hit.  3 UK fig interceptors got 0 hits.  AA got no hits with a 3 or less do to tech . Got to play it longer to see where this goes .
I will drop the A2 on H Bomber.

@Baron:

@SS:

I just got to decide if we change cost now in game for bombers or just go with what we have for now. I think best to just keep bomber costs the same and see what the outcome is.
I do love the Stg C5 no value because it can’t just wipe out stuff.

I also just see the Stg bomber C5 hurts the UK more early in game because they can’t get to Berlin like Germany is closer and can make it to London from France or West Germany. Granted UK can bomb West Germany but that IC just gets up to 4 damage max.

That situations seems historical-like. B-17 Heavy hitter were able to reach Berlin but not Liberator or Halifax.

Maybe, you can just drop Hvy StB combat values to A0, 0 hit, keeping M7 C8, still A2 D6+2 in SBR.

This will balanced things IMO.
How many Bombers were shot down by Fgs interceptors?

Yes its looking that way. It will be more costly for US to keep buying H Bombers that attack Berlin if they get shot down a lot. Germany has the Radar Tech now so AA’s get a 3 or less on die roll for a hit.
Will see how the B-17’s far in the Japan bombing campaign if it happens.

We got another turn in last nite.

The game has changed for the Allies. China gone pretty much, UK navy gone in India, and Japan is getting closer to Calcutta.

The US had to stop buying H Bombers in the Pacific due to Japan getting to strong and US/UK joining up to try and take back the Dutch Islands. The 3 US B-17s landed in Russia and better there than Wake Island. This is going to make Japan push 1 more territory deeper in Russia to keep the B-17’s from attacking from there. US had to retreat there do to Japan naval threat from Capital.

US will probably buy just 1 H Bomber per turn for Atlantic side if possible. They need more tranny’s in the Atlantic.

The US 3 B-17’s did attack Berlin. The 3 H Bombers shot down 1 Fig and the AA gun shot down 1 H Bomber. 2 H Bombers did 10 damage on Berlin IC.

US got a free H Bomber for there event card. So now US has 5 B-17’s in Great Britain for future SBR’s.

Baron, your Figs at A4 D4 work great in naval battles with ships. More ship on ship battles while the Figs fight for air control.
As far as the H Bomber goes I think its going to work out. But the only country I see buying just the Stg. Bomber will be Germany because they are the only country that can do IC damage on a Capital IC’s until 1 or more other country’s get close enough to a Capital IC to bomb.

@SS:

We got another turn in last nite.

The game has changed for the Allies. China gone pretty much, UK navy gone in India, and Japan is getting closer to Calcutta.

The US had to stop buying H Bombers in the Pacific due to Japan getting to strong and US/UK joining up to try and take back the Dutch Islands. The 3 US B-17s landed in Russia and better there than Wake Island. This is going to make Japan push 1 more territory deeper in Russia to keep the B-17’s from attacking from there. US had to retreat there do to Japan naval threat from Capital.

US will probably buy just 1 H Bomber per turn for Atlantic side if possible. They need more tranny’s in the Atlantic.

The US 3 B-17’s did attack Berlin. The 3 H Bombers shot down 1 Fig and the AA gun shot down 1 H Bomber. 2 H Bombers did 10 damage on Berlin IC.

US got a free H Bomber for there event card. So now US has 5 B-17’s in Great Britain for future SBR’s.

Baron, your Figs at A4 D4 work great in naval battles with ships. More ship on ship battles while the Figs fight for air control.
As far as the H Bomber goes I think its going to work out. But the only country I see buying just the Stg. Bomber will be Germany because they are the only country that can do IC damage on a Capital IC’s until 1 or more other country’s get close enough to a Capital IC to bomb.

One distortion aspect of StB is your Global War Map. From UK to Europe ICs there is not much within 3 TTys. (4 damage pts IC?)
Not same situation in G40 or 1942.2 maps.

There is still an historical accuracy about Germany buying StBs (German bomber was 2-engines planes mostly) compared to UK or US buying Long range Heavy StBs.
I will think about your unpopular StB.

Yes thats true. I just sent Black Elk a PM asking the same thing that I asked you and mentioned the map being different with different IC setups.

Then if we have to will just change the Str. Bomber back to a different value and cost but close to no values on A D.

@SS:

Yes thats true. I just sent Black Elk a PM asking the same thing that I asked you and mentioned the map being different with different IC setups.

Then if we have to will just change the Str. Bomber back to a different value and cost but close to no values on A D.

In G40, West Germany, France, Southern France and Normandy Bordeaux, all four TTys got ICs (either Minor or Major) there is a lot to blast.

For play-test POV, I really believe you should give 5 IPCs StBs 8 moves with AB.
And, if you really need a better range for Heavy StB, then add 1M.
That’s the way to simulate what happen for UK in G40 game.

Probably, StB A0 D0 M7-8 C5, 0 hit, SBR A2 damage D6.
Heavy StB A2 D0 M8-9 C8, 1 hit, SBR A2 damage D6+2

That way, 5 IPCs StB can be as intended by Black_Elk.

I just sent you a PM suggesting these values. Didn’t see your message here until after I sent PM.

Baron

Got in 3 more turns. These are the Bombing reports of what happened in game last 3 turns ( 2-4 ) using the Stg. Bomber. No Heavy’s.
Using the values of A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @1 doggy.
Turn 2

Germany - Germany sends 3 fig escorts and 2 Stg. Bombers to London.  UK intercepts with 3 figs.
   3 figs   A4  = 1 hit      1 UK fig Cas.
   2 Stg.  @1 = 0 hits

3 figs   D4 = 1 hit      1 Ger fig Cas.
   2 AA  D3 (tech +1) = 0 hits
   2 German Stg. Bombers 2D6  12 damage.

Italy
   1 Stg. Bomber to Stalingrad.
   1 AA D2 = 0 hit
   1 Stg. Bomber 1D6 = 1 damage.

Turn 3

Germany- Germany sends 1 fig escort and 3 Stg.Bombers to Moscow. Russia sends up 1 interceptor.
   1 fig  A4 = 1 hit      1 Russian fig Cas.
   3 Stg. @1 no roll
   1 fig  D4 = 0 hits
   3 AA D2 = 0 hits
   3 Stg. Bombers 3D6 = 8 damage

Italy- sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Stalingrad
   2 AA D2 = 0 hits
   2 Stg. Bombers 2D6 = 6 damage.

Turn 4

Japan- sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Calcutta.
   2 AA D2 = 0 hits
   2 Stg. Bombers 2 D6 = 6 damage.

What I’m seeing is the SBRing favors the Axis early so far in game. UK hasn’t bought any Stg. Bombers because they are trying to get rid of the German subs and building up a landing force. US is the one thats buying Stg. Bombers. 3 a turn. They now have 5 Bombers in London ready to go next turn with 3 more from Washington with some Dest. and Tran help.

So in my game it seems like US has to build in the Atlantic in the early rounds to help UK. With US money and Bombers at C5 it helps
UK. Will see how the US bombing goes. With Germany having to deal with winter weather on next 2 turns according to weather chart and there NA can call winter on any turn.

Forgot. The reason why Germany is not bombing London now is because London is not fixing there damage to IC. They have a minor IC in Great Britain where they are building 4 pieces for now. But Germany did just bomb that IC with Rocket Tech, but if they didn’t have Rockets they would for sure used there bombers then.

I changed the Stalingrad bombing to Moscow above in Turn 3. It was Moscow that got bombed.

How does it feel about 5 IPCs StBs?
Too unbalanced ?
Balanced?
Still undecided?

I’m pretty sure everyone agree about it: it works like WWII StBs, useful for Strategic Bombing Raid.
It increase SBR and Fg escort & intercepts.
More than in any game I saw ever.

Maybe unbalanced early in game and undecided yet. We got to see how it goes for the Allies now that they finally got some bombers.

@SS:

Baron

Got in 3 more turns. These are the Bombing reports of what happened in game last 3 turns ( 2-4 ) using the Stg. Bomber. No Heavy’s.
Using the values of A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @1 doggy.
Turn 2

Germany - Germany sends 3 fig escorts and 2 Stg. Bombers to London.  UK intercepts with 3 figs.
   3 figs   A4  = 1 hit      1 UK fig Cas.
   2 Stg.  @1 = 0 hits

3 figs   D4 = 1 hit      1 Ger fig Cas.
   2 AA  D3 (tech +1) = 0 hits
   2 German Stg. Bombers 2D6  12 damage.

Italy
   1 Stg. Bomber to Stalingrad.
   1 AA D2 = 0 hit
   1 Stg. Bomber 1D6 = 1 damage.

Turn 3

Germany- Germany sends 1 fig escort and 3 Stg.Bombers to Moscow. Russia sends up 1 interceptor.
   1 fig  A4 = 1 hit      1 Russian fig Cas.
   3 Stg. @1 no roll
   1 fig  D4 = 0 hits
   3 AA D2 = 0 hits
   3 Stg. Bombers 3D6 = 8 damage

Italy- sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Stalingrad
   2 AA D2 = 0 hits
   2 Stg. Bombers 2D6 = 6 damage.

Turn 4

Japan- sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Calcutta.
   2 AA D2 = 0 hits
   2 Stg. Bombers 2 D6 = 6 damage.

What I’m seeing is the SBRing favors the Axis early so far in game. UK hasn’t bought any Stg. Bombers because they are trying to get rid of the German subs and building up a landing force. US is the one thats buying Stg. Bombers. 3 a turn. They now have 5 Bombers in London ready to go next turn with 3 more from Washington with some Dest. and Tran help.

So in my game it seems like US has to build in the Atlantic in the early rounds to help UK. With US money and Bombers at C5 it helps
UK. Will see how the US bombing goes. With Germany having to deal with winter weather on next 2 turns according to weather chart and there NA can call winter on any turn.

Forgot. The reason why Germany is not bombing London now is because London is not fixing there damage to IC. They have a minor IC in Great Britain where they are building 4 pieces for now. But Germany did just bomb that IC with Rocket Tech, but if they didn’t have Rockets they would for sure used there bombers then.
 
I changed the Stalingrad bombing to Moscow above in Turn 3. It was Moscow that got bombed.

I pretty like your accurate depiction.
I saw that some UK interception works.
Do you know the German player choose to lose a 7 IPCs Fg instead of a 5 IPCs Bomber?
Was it a hard choice or not?

If I compare San Francisco Rules Fg A6 D8 C10 with your experimenting Fg A4 D4 C7, do you think it may gives some reason to be less afraid of loosing a Fg?
Because, in SFR SBR  (D12 digit) Fg attack A2 defend D2, fight at a much lower rate, for a single round.
It feels like they are underused, while Fgs in this Global war work the same reg combat and SBR.

@Baron:

@SS:

Baron

Got in 3 more turns. These are the Bombing reports of what happened in game last 3 turns ( 2-4 ) using the Stg. Bomber. No Heavy’s.
Using the values of A0 D0 C5 M7-8 @1 doggy.
Turn 2

Germany - Germany sends 3 fig escorts and 2 Stg. Bombers to London.  UK intercepts with 3 figs.
    3 figs  A4  = 1 hit      1 UK fig Cas.
    2 Stg.  @1 = 0 hits

3 figs  D4 = 1 hit      1 Ger fig Cas.
    2 AA  D3 (tech +1) = 0 hits
    2 German Stg. Bombers 2D6  12 damage.

Italy
    1 Stg. Bomber to Stalingrad.
    1 AA D2 = 0 hit
    1 Stg. Bomber 1D6 = 1 damage.

Turn 3

Germany- Germany sends 1 fig escort and 3 Stg.Bombers to Moscow. Russia sends up 1 interceptor.
    1 fig  A4 = 1 hit      1 Russian fig Cas.
    3 Stg. @1 no roll
    1 fig  D4 = 0 hits
    3 AA D2 = 0 hits
    3 Stg. Bombers 3D6 = 8 damage

Italy- sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Stalingrad
    2 AA D2 = 0 hits
    2 Stg. Bombers 2D6 = 6 damage.

Turn 4

Japan- sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Calcutta.
    2 AA D2 = 0 hits
    2 Stg. Bombers 2 D6 = 6 damage.

What I’m seeing is the SBRing favors the Axis early so far in game. UK hasn’t bought any Stg. Bombers because they are trying to get rid of the German subs and building up a landing force. US is the one thats buying Stg. Bombers. 3 a turn. They now have 5 Bombers in London ready to go next turn with 3 more from Washington with some Dest. and Tran help.

So in my game it seems like US has to build in the Atlantic in the early rounds to help UK. With US money and Bombers at C5 it helps
UK. Will see how the US bombing goes. With Germany having to deal with winter weather on next 2 turns according to weather chart and there NA can call winter on any turn.

Forgot. The reason why Germany is not bombing London now is because London is not fixing there damage to IC. They have a minor IC in Great Britain where they are building 4 pieces for now. But Germany did just bomb that IC with Rocket Tech, but if they didn’t have Rockets they would for sure used there bombers then.
 
I changed the Stalingrad bombing to Moscow above in Turn 3. It was Moscow that got bombed.

I pretty like your accurate depiction.
I saw that some UK interception works.
Do you know the Germain player choose to lose a 7 IPCs Fg instead of a 5 IPCs Bomber?
Was it a hard choice or not?

If I compare San Francisco Rules Fg A6 D8 C10 with your experimenting Fg A4 D4 C7, do you think it may gives some reason to be less afraid of loosing a Fg?
Because, in SFR SBR  (D12 digit) Fg attack A2 defend D2, fight at a much lower rate, for a single round.
It feels like they are underused, while Fgs in this Global war work the same reg combat and SBR.

I was playing Germany and it didn’t dawn on me until you just said something about it. So much going on I missed it. But with getting rid of the Ger fig u would hope of getting that extra 4 icp damage after losing the 2 icp difference in cost, but fig still can attack else where if it doesn’t escort.
The SF rules Fig A6 D8 C10 would be for me hands down not taking as a casualty. 3 icp difference in cost would gain A2 and D4 and even with A2 D2 SBR.
Yes I can see why there under used. Pretty strong for 10 icp fighter.

Baron,

Turn 5

US- US sends 4 Stg. Bombers to Berlin. Germany sends up 3 Fig interceptors.
  4 Stg. Bombers @1 = 0 hits
  3 Figs D4 = 1 hit    1 US Bomber casualty.
  3 AA D3 (tech +1) = 1 hit  1 US Bomber casualty.
  2 US Stg. Bombers 2D6  9 damage

Turn 6

Germany- Germany sends 3 Stg. Bombers to Moscow
    3 AA D2 = 0 hits
    3 German Stg. Bombers 3D6  12 damage.

UK- UK sends 2 Stg. Bombers to Berlin. 3 German figs intercept.
    2 Stg. Bombers @1 = 0 hits
    3 Figs D4 = 3 hits    2 UK bomber casualties.

US- US sends 4 Stg. Bombers to Berlin.  Germany sends up 3 interceptors.
    4 Stg. Bombers @1 = 0 hits
    3 figs D4 = 1 hit    1 US bomber casualty.
    3 AA D3 (tech +1) = 0 hits
    3 Stg. Bombers 3D6    8 damage.

Was able to get in a few more turns. Allies doing some SBR damage later in game now. Look in at this game now I can see US has to buy Heavy Bombers for the risk there making with no escorts.
As for Germany and Italy buying the 5C bomber, that I will need to play more in my game. With there early start of Bombing have to see if its to low for those 2 countries. May have to make them pay 8 a bomber.

For the Allies I can see US buying H. Bombers right away. Even a UK H. Bomber now and then. Now I don’t know the setup for the G40 and 1942 game. I will take a look at those setups and see where the IC are. I know you said there were 4 in and around Paris.
I can see maybe the C5 bomber for US UK being to strong with 4 IC’s that close to London ?
Have to see if Barney came up with something in the Triple A games.

I know this,  the Fig A4 D4 C7 M4-5 will stay in game now. As far as the Fig A4 D4 in dogfights is still debatable.

I don’t know if I will get any more turns in game this week. Got a 39 game Saturday and need to get that ready for the Lackey’s !

I know this,  the Fig A4 D4 C7 M4-5 will stay in game now. As far as the Fig A4 D4 in dogfights is still debatable.

For me, I cannot play without Fg A2 D2 C6 or 7 (depending which cost structure I use), hit aircraft first and TcB A3 D2 C8 chose any ground target.
Do you still use these abilities with Fg and TcB?

On SBR values, giving A4 D4 is a high value but it is needed against bomber with attack value.
If bomber with no value at all, it works pretty well.

Probably UK and US needs to built Fgs first to intercept German bombers, then building StBs.
This would follow WWII air combat evolution in England.
So, your issue still follow history.
Maybe it is a bit hard on UK at first, but seems natural.

However, it remains an issue to observe in first round of all games.
StB C5, is it too hard on UK and USSR?

@Baron:

I know this,  the Fig A4 D4 C7 M4-5 will stay in game now. As far as the Fig A4 D4 in dogfights is still debatable.

For me, I cannot play without Fg A2 D2 C6 or 7 (depending which cost structure I use), hit aircraft first and TcB A3 D2 C8 chose any ground target.
Do you still use these abilities with Fg and TcB?
YES

On SBR values, giving A4 D4 is a high value but it is needed against bomber with attack value.
If bomber with no value at all, it works pretty well.

Probably UK and US needs to built Fgs first to intercept German bombers, then building StBs.
This would follow WWII air combat evolution in England.
So, your issue still follow history.
Maybe it is a bit hard on UK at first, but seems natural.

TRUE

However, it remains an issue to observe in first round of all games.
StB C5, is it too hard on UK and USSR?

On UK some what and alot more on Russia do to no interceptors.