World at War

@crockett36

Tokyo express does not need a marine. 1 infantry on Japanese destroyers.

@SuperbattleshipYamato Sticking with the hidden subs subject,I would give destroyers a high probability,say 5/6, of finding subs in the same sz and zero chance of finding subs in an adjacent sz.
Also to prevent cheating,I’d use sealed envelopes or a locked box to store the sheets that record locations and previous movements of hidden subs.
On the subject of penalties for taking too long,I have another game the has "Time Machine"cards which when played,allows 1 selected D6 roll by yourself or an opponent to be cancelled and re-rolled.Example I’m bombing a factory and my opponent rolls 1 with his AA .I play a Time Machine card that I got because he was slow on a previous turn.I make him re-roll his AA and discard my Time machine card.Yes ,he could again roll 1 and my bomber dies.

Active Nations:

USSR: 45 IPCs
Would include all starting USSR territories, plus the following:
Germany, Poland, Slovakia Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, Bulgaria, Albania

Western Europe (WE) : 23 IPCs

Portugal, Portuguese Guinea, Angola, Mozambique Holland Belgium, Suriname, Belgian Congo Greenland, Iceland, Denmark, Norway Northern Italy, Southern Italy, Sicily, Sardinia Turkey, Greece, Crete

So in E&W, a bit ahistorically (as the game is set in 1948) Greece and Turkey are part of WE, despite not joining NATO until 1952. For now I’m lumping them in here, but my other preference would be to have them as strict neutrals – more on that later.

Also in E&W, Greenland and Iceland are treated as US territories; since both are worth 0 IPCs on the Europe 1940 map, the only real important distinction is whether they are hostile or friendly, so I wanted to include them under WE instead.

UK: 31 IPCs
gains the following territories:
Italian Somaliland, Tobruk, Libya, Western Germany

UK loses Trans-Jordan, Egypt, Alexandria to the Arab League UK loses Iceland to WE

US: 38 IPCs
gains the following territories:
Greater Southern Germany

US loses Southeast Mexico to the OAS US loses Greenland to WE

Neutral Powers:

France (pro-NATO) : 16 IPCs

France loses Syria to the Arab League

What I’m proposing for France would be sort of a hybrid rule between the activation rules for pro-neutrals, and a house rule I proposed for China, in E&W.

Essentially how this works is that France would contribute income to WE, based on the IPC value of French territories containing NATO troops (WE, UK, or US) at the end of Western Europe’s turn. If France is attacked by the USSR, all French units and territories would convert to WE ownership.

The reason for doing this is primarily to keep France as part of NATO, without making WE so huge economically that they don’t need any help. Also, by weakening NATO a little bit in this way, I’m hoping to avoid needing to use the E&W rule whereby USSR gets infantry for 2 IPCs instead of 3 IPCs.

Organization of American States (OAS) : 9 IPCs
(Essentially, all of the neutral South American countries except Suriname, plus Southeast Mexico)
If the OAS is attacked by the USSR, all OAS units and territories would convert to US ownership.

Arab League: 8 IPCs
(Alexandria, Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Iraq, Saudi Arabia)
If the Arab League is attacked by the USSR, all Arab units and territories would convert to UK ownership.

…
So, in addition to possibly including a diplomacy mechanism similar to classic E&W, I was wanting to incorporate one of the house rules I had suggested for E&W and apply it to this scenario:

All remaining neutrals are considered “strict neutrals”
However:

The USSR may attack any neutral at any time. If the USSR attacks a strict neutral, rather than having ALL strict neutrals side with NATO (as in classic Europe 1940) instead NATO gets to shift either the OAS or Arab League one step on the diplomacy scale.

Now, if Greece and Turkey are kept as strict neutrals, rather than being part of WE, this rule could potentially have large consequences if/when the USSR chooses to attack them.

I was thinking instead of the classic E&W diplomacy scale, it’d make more sense to have it like -8/-6/-4/-2/0/+2/+4/+6/+8

Strict Neutrals:
Probably a good “hard and fast” rule would be that if attacked by the USSR, strict neutrals in Europe would join WE, while strict neutrals in Africa or the middle east would join UK; Rio De Oro would be considered part of Spain, for these purposes. If Turkey is neutral…? I’d probably consider them part of the middle east.

Europe: Eire, Spain / Rio De Oro, Switzerland, Sweden, Finland Africa: Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ethiopia Middle East: Northwest Persia, Persia, Eastern Persia, Afghanistan

What this all means:

Starting Income:
USSR: 45
NATO: 92

Maximum potential income, including neutrals:
USSR (plus Arab League, OAS*, and all strict neutrals) : 71
WE (plus France, and all strict neutrals in Europe) : 46
UK (plus Arab League, and all strict neutrals in Africa + Middle East) : 42
US (plus OAS*) : 46

*Assumes OAS income is capped at 8 rather than 9

Pro-Allied, Pro-FIL, and Strict Neutral powers have been added in to the posted setup.

@Argothair:

I’m not really clear on how your rules would work – someone is rolling a die to get bonus cash? Who? When? How much cash? Do the Republican / Nationalist sides of the civil war have any starting forces, or are they entirely donated by the patrons? Does Spain always end the civil war with an army of exactly 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tnk no matter how stalemated or one-sided the civil war was? Given that control of Spain is apparently worth something like 19 IPCs in units plus 3 IPCs per turn in income, plus control of a tactically useful forward base, is there any reason why each side wouldn’t donate the maximum allowable amount?

All of that said, 1939 scenarios are tricky because they make it really hard for the Axis to win – the general consensus among historian types is that the Allies could have won the war quickly, easily, and decisively if England and France and Poland (let alone Russia!) had all made a coordinated attack on Germany before Germany had a chance to plunder half of Europe. So you need some mechanics that either stop the Allies from attacking or stop them from coordinating their attacks; otherwise the Axis get blown away. You also need to find a way to nerf the American economy so that the Americans don’t have 4 years of massive spending to prepare for a 1943 invasion, or the endgame also becomes an easy Allied victory.

I think the overall tendency of introducing the Spanish Civil War is to further advantage the Allies, because it provides yet another potential beachhead that the Germans need to defend. Let’s say the Allies invest nothing in Spain, the Axis contribute about 3 infantry, and so now the Axis are basically guaranteed to win the Spanish Civil War and will wind up with 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tnk plus an income boost of 3 IPCs per turn. Well, the 1 art + 1 tnk gets used up real fast, and then it’s not obvious that 3 IPC per turn is enough to pay for an effective garrison of an additional high-value territory near Berlin/Rome. If the Soviets get control of Spain and Italy or whoever has to waste resources invading it, well, that’s that much worse for the Axis.

None of this is to say that you can’t or shouldn’t have a Spanish Civil War in your 1939 scenario, just that you have to be careful about it. Be careful not to advantage the Allies too much, is my advice.

“Someone is rolling a die to get bonus cash? Who? When? How much cash?” Yes, in a 2 player game the Axis player and Allies player rolls a die. In games exceeding 2 players, the Italy Player and the Russian Player roll the die for their respective side. Neither side has starting forces and their units can only be received through the die roll and donations. The amount of cash earned is the number on the die.

“Does Spain always end the civil war with an army of exactly 3 inf, 1 art, 1 tnk no matter how stalemated or one-sided the civil war was?” Yes Spain always begins with that much but the Iberian peninsula itself has been split up into multiple territories.

“Given that control of Spain is apparently worth something like 19 IPCs in units plus 3 IPCs per turn in income, plus control of a tactically useful forward base, is there any reason why each side wouldn’t donate the maximum allowable amount?” Yes, the lack of IPCs to do so in the first turn or finding a better use for the IPCs.

Now I understand 1939 is hard for the Axis to win, which is why I’ve taken liberties here and there and added rules (Such as politics, neutrality, and ways to sap money from the Allies). I believe had I introduced this with my entire 1939 scenario, a lot of your question would have been cleared up. Also going back to liberties and realism please reread the first sentence I’ve added as a disclaimer “This isn’t realistic”. I see Axis and Allies as more of a game with history theme rather than an accurate history simulator. This isn’t to say that I’m not grateful for your feedback (Which I am) but I would like you know 2 things

1: I prioritize fairness and fun over realism

2: I did not explain everything and things that would balance your suggested issues.

If you would like I could begin a thread explaining my whole game and then later on we could revisit this and see my idea with a new Point of View.

@nicbizz:

YG, what happens after all units have been rolled for, does it just restart over, or is that bonus expended? Like, on turn 7 after a J1 attack for instance.

I would say yes… the list would reset after all units are taken.

As a huge fan of Imp Games’ East & West, these kinds of games always intrigue me. It’s set in 1948, so there are some similarities to the '46 scenario.

IMHO, 1948 is sort of the high-water mark for NATO (i.e. the European empires) however, East & West is a bit non-historical in this sense.

• NATO was not formed until 1949
• Turkey and Greece did not join NATO until 1952, but are part of the Alliance in-game
• Pakistan, India, and Burma were all independent of Britain in 1948; in E&W they are still part of the empire, and a huge thorn in the side of the USSR
• The breakdown of Indonesia between Dutch-controlled areas and independent(ish) ones is not in line with history

The other high-water mark of the Cold War (based on my research) is around 1975-76. Off the top of my head:

• The Vietnam War was over; Cuba, Afghanistan, Angola, Mozambique, and Ethiopia were all ruled by communist regimes. The USSR (or Warsaw Pact) was at the height of its influence
• The Arab League had expanded across all of north Africa; the Islamic Conference also greatly increased its membership around this time
• The Central Treaty Organization (CENTO) including Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan, as well as the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) including Thailand, Philippines, Australia and New Zealand were still in existence, supported by the major NATO powers of the US, UK, and France
• China had annexed Tibet and fought a small war with India

I’ve done work on 1975-76 scenarios for both the Original A&A as well as E&W and have done a fair bit of study on the cold war era “map” so to speak. If anyone wants to discuss the subject/games here or in a PM, I’d be very happy to respond. :-)