This makes me believe Sydney needs to be rewarding. High risk should bring high reward.
Instead of 22 points, Allies should rise to 24 points.
So, Sydney can rise to 3 points. (Minor Power Capital worth 3 points, same for Italy)
(Still keeping Calcutta switch with Manilla.)
So, Sydney (3 points) would pay 1 more VC point than Calcutta (2 points)
Even if Allies rise to 24, probably you should keep a 30 VCs points to win.
IMO, if Axis is down to 22-6= 16 VCs points, they are probably loosing.
OK Sydney changed from 1 to 3 in victory city points.
Total VC points is now 46?
Axis 22?
Allies 24?
First win to reach 30?
Yes
We are adding 6 things to a new test game this weekend. D12 die system
1. Germany and US can build Q-transports only. A1(ships only)D1(subs only) C8M2. All other transports A0D0C7M2
2. AAA gun can now attack and defend. A1 at plane first round only. D1 for each attacking plane. A1D1C5M1
3. Cruisers each get a AA shot first round only at a plane.
4. Tac bomber picks target on a 2 or less.
5. SBR’s we will be using d8 and d10 dice. Bomber - d8 H Bomber - d10
6. Sydney went from 1 point to 3 points. Manilla went from 2 points to 1 point. Calcutta went from 1 point to 2 points.
Allies start with 24 points and Axis start with 22 points. First one to 30 points and holds for a turn wins the game.
Game now is the 23rd. I just updated this message. Emergency came up for a player.
Waitin on group vote for transport rule.
Will see what they want.
We decided to go with the transport getting a escape roll after a sub first strike and before rest of ship attacks per round.
I’ll be posting game results in a bit and with the 2 attacks with transports left alone results and how the escaping transport rule worked so far in game.
Thanks,
I will like to read it.
We started another test game last weekend. Got 2 turns in. Chart is for who has NA 's for this game. Germany not getting Sub interdiction is making the game a lot different for the allies big time.
With the victory city point adjustments gives the axis more options for a win.
Ichabod, The attacking AAA gun has not been used yet in game so far. We made all AAA guns in game on setup all A/D guns. Those
guns gave you Defense roll on SBR’s, Attacking planes, Naval and Air Ports. If there was a Navalport or Airport alone on a
territory then you have to buy the AAA gun to protect it on any SBR attacks only.
Baron, The escaping transport rule every body liked a lot. Transports get a escape roll before attacker rolls for every round.
Except if subs have first strike it kills them first.
3 German subs attacking UK 1 dest and 2 transports.
2 german subs (WP) attacking @5 FS Dice rolls 2 ger subs - rolled a 2, 11 1 hit
UK picks Dest as casualty. So now with the transports being alone on ships attacking ( 1 Ger Sub yet to attack )
lone transports they ea get a escape roll. 2 rolls = 2,12 1 transport gets to escape. Place on map.
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit 1 transport escapes and other has to stay for next round of combat.
3 Ger subs (WP) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.
4 German subs attacking UK fleet of 2 dest 2 transports
2 german subs (WP) @5 FS rolls a 6,7 miss
2 german subs @5 rolls a 2,12 1 hit
UK takes dest casualty
UK 2 dest roll a 3,4 2 hits
Ger removes 2 subs for casualties.
1 ger sub (WP) @5 FS rolls a 9 miss
1 ger sub @5 rolls a 2 1 hit
UK removes 1 dest left
UK dest rolls a 3 1 hit
Ger removes a sub.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 2,10 1 hit
UK removes a transport
UK 1 left transport rolls a 8 for escape. Has to stay.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 9 miss
UK transport rolls a 11 no escape
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 3 1 hit
UK removes transport for casualty.
With a First strike sub the transport doesn’t get the escape roll until after sub rolls for FS attack. If no subs but ships only or planes only attacking lone transports then the transports get there escape roll before the attacker rolls. Gives 1 0r 2 transports at least surviving. So best to bring enough attacking pieces to wipe out the transports right away.
Will post all remaining transport battles if they happen during the game.
As far as the Stg Bomber rolling a d8 and a H Bomber rolling a d10 for SBR’s have not happened in game yet. But UK US licking there chops soon. Heard flak talk of getting close to Germany so they can bring escorts but use bombers for now on ground attacks and then all out air assault.
Other 2 pics of maps so far of game.
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Europe
Pacific
How did you manage to change your table aid for Victory points?
It is not a simple sheet of paper; it seems to depict Iwo Jima flag lifting combat in background.
It probably cost of few bucks when changing such rule?
I like this simple grid with cities name and number of points below.
There is a metallic sheet behind so magnet can but on these boxes, right?
Baron, The escaping transport rule every body liked a lot. Transports get a escape roll before attacker rolls for every round.
Except if subs have first strike it kills them first.3 German subs attacking UK 1 dest and 2 transports.
2 german subs (WP) attacking @5 FS Dice rolls 2 ger subs - rolled a 2, 11 1 hit
UK picks Dest as casualty. So now with the transports being alone on ships attacking ( 1 Ger Sub yet to attack )
lone transports they ea get a escape roll. 2 rolls = 2,12 1 transport gets to escape. Place on map.
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit 1 transport escapes and other has to stay for next round of combat.
3 Ger subs (WP) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.
You seems to formulate two different rules.
First, TPs start to roll on first combat round to escape.
Second, TPs need to have no more escorts to be able to roll for escape.
According to the more detailed naval, you seemed to have use the second one.
BTW, thanks for providing these detailed naval combat. I like to read how it went.
Do I understand correctly?
Tell me if I’m guessing right about what is funny for TPs rule.
Attacker cannot loose Subs from TPs but defender still hoping to save a few from slaughter.
Defender is not just watching all TPs sunken in a second. But attacker is still wanting to make the hits because there is no automatic kill.
@Baron:
Baron, The escaping transport rule every body liked a lot. Transports get a escape roll before attacker rolls for every round.
Except if subs have first strike it kills them first.3 German subs attacking UK 1 dest and 2 transports.
2 german subs (WP) attacking @5 FS Dice rolls 2 ger subs - rolled a 2, 11 1 hit
UK picks Dest as casualty. So now with the transports being alone on ships attacking ( 1 Ger Sub yet to attack )
lone transports they ea get a escape roll. 2 rolls = 2,12 1 transport gets to escape. Place on map.
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit 1 transport escapes and other has to stay for next round of combat.
3 Ger subs (WP) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.You seems to formulate two different rules.
First, TPs start to roll on first combat round to escape.Yes The vote went before combat. But maybe still debatable. This may change to after attacker rolls before escape. Gives the transport just a bit more of a chance to escape.
Second, TPs need to have no more escorts to be able to roll for escape.
Yes. As long as transports are alone only with attacking ships or attacking planes alone too.
According to the more detailed naval, you seemed to have use the second one.
BTW, thanks for providing these detailed naval combat. I like to read how it went.Do I understand correctly?
Yes
Tell me if I’m guessing right about what is funny for TPs rule.
Attacker cannot loose Subs from TPs but defender still hoping to save a few from slaughter.
Defender is not just watching all TPs sunken in a second. But attacker is still wanting to make the hits because there is no automatic kill.Yes
@Baron:
How did you manage to change your table aid for Victory points?
It is not a simple sheet of paper; it seems to depict Iwo Jima flag lifting combat in background.
It probably cost of few bucks when changing such rule?
I like this simple grid with cities name and number of points below.
There is a metallic sheet behind so magnet can but on these boxes, right?
The numbers for the Victory City points are changed on outside of plexi-glass. It looks like its on the inside. I could put the numbers under plexi-glass but would need to take apart chart. Just replace the sticky number for any changes. I can use city chart for both different victory conditions for 39 and 40 games.
Son help me design chart then had printed on vinyl with 2’ x 3’ sheet of metal bought at Home depot covered in plexi-glass. Round magnets from Hobby Lobby. Cost 100.00 total.
Well worth it. Did the same thing with the icp-tech chart too.
@SS:
@Baron:
Baron, The escaping transport rule every body liked a lot. Transports get a escape roll before attacker rolls for every round.
Except if subs have first strike it kills them first.** 3 German subs attacking UK 1 dest and 2 transports.**
2 german subs (WP) attacking @5 FS Dice rolls 2 ger subs - rolled a 2, 11 1 hit
UK picks Dest as casualty. So now with the transports being alone on ships attacking ( 1 Ger Sub yet to attack )
lone transports they ea get a escape roll. 2 rolls = 2,12 1 transport gets to escape. Place on map.
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit 1 transport escapes and other has to stay for next round of combat.
3 Ger subs (WP) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.**You seems to formulate two different rules.
First, TPs start to roll on first combat round to escape.Yes The vote went before combat. But maybe still debatable. This may change to after attacker rolls before escape. Gives the transport just a bit more of a chance to escape.
Second, TPs need to have no more escorts to be able to roll for escape.
Yes. As long as transports are alone only with attacking ships or attacking planes alone too.**
Now I can see where is the difference between what I would implement and what you did.
Overall, it probably give similar odds of survival to TPs.
In my prefered version, TP evade roll is after all attacks, but there is no waiting to escape. It can be done right at the end of the first combat round even when there is still escorts.
So, in your play-test, first combat, 2 TPs have rolled once in first round because DD escort was sunk in first strike phase (Wolf Pack effect). Then last Sub attack with “6”, missed.
In my variant, no matter what happen to this DD, all remaining TPs get to roll.
What would you do if there was only 2 Subs with Wolf pack hitting single DD?
Does 2 TPs get there evade roll right away, even if at the beginning they were escorted by single DD?
Or have to wait until the end of second combat round, once 2 Subs first strike have rolled?
4 German subs attacking UK fleet of 2 dest 2 transports
2 german subs (WP) @5 FS rolls a 6,7 miss
2 german subs @5 rolls a 2,12 1 hit
UK takes dest casualty
UK 2 dest roll a 3,4 2 hits
Ger removes 2 subs for casualties.
1 ger sub (WP) @5 FS rolls a 9 miss
1 ger sub @5 rolls a 2 1 hit
** UK removes 1 dest left**
UK dest rolls a 3 1 hit
Ger removes a sub.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 2,10 1 hit ???
UK removes a transport
UK 1 left transport rolls a 8 for escape. Has to stay.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 9 miss
UK transport rolls a 11 no escape
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 3 1 hit
UK removes transport for casualty.
In this case above, if the second DD have been sunk by First strike rather than reg Sub attack, both TPs would have to roll, right?
Having to separate between first strike roll and regular ones and decide if TPs are allowed to roll for escape is slowing the combat process, IMO.
Maybe this slightly different rule may solve this and still be according to your previous view:
TPs get evade rolls at the beginning of combat rounds before Subs first strike (same time as Subs submerge phase) but these rolls only begins at the start of second combat round.
Escorted TPs can get this roll, not just unescorted.
(IMO, this is simpler, but the other way can be manageable too. If escorted at the start of a given combat round, there is no roll.)
@Baron:
@SS:
@Baron:
Baron, The escaping transport rule every body liked a lot. Transports get a escape roll before attacker rolls for every round.
Except if subs have first strike it kills them first.** 3 German subs attacking UK 1 dest and 2 transports.**
2 german subs (WP) attacking @5 FS Dice rolls 2 ger subs - rolled a 2, 11 1 hit
UK picks Dest as casualty. So now with the transports being alone on ships attacking ( 1 Ger Sub yet to attack )
lone transports they ea get a escape roll. 2 rolls = 2,12 1 transport gets to escape. Place on map.
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit 1 transport escapes and other has to stay for next round of combat.
3 Ger subs (WP) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.**You seems to formulate two different rules.
First, TPs start to roll on first combat round to escape.Yes The vote went before combat. But maybe still debatable. This may change to after attacker rolls before escape. Gives the transport just a bit more of a chance to escape.
Second, TPs need to have no more escorts to be able to roll for escape.
Yes. As long as transports are alone only with attacking ships or attacking planes alone too.**
Now I can see where is the difference between what I would implement and what you did.
Overall, it probably give similar odds of survival to TPs.
In my prefered version, TP evade roll is after all attacks, but there is no waiting to escape. It can be done right at the end of the first combat round even when there is still escorts.So, in your play-test, first combat, 2 TPs have rolled once in first round because DD escort was sunk in first strike phase (Wolf Pack effect). Then last Sub attack with “6”, missed.
In my variant, no matter what happen to this DD, all remaining TPs get to roll.
What would you do if there was only 2 Subs with Wolf pack hitting single DD?
Does 2 TPs get there evade roll right away, even if at the beginning they were escorted by single DD?
Or have to wait until the end of second combat round, once 2 Subs first strike have rolled?2 subs hitting on first strike would of killed the dest and TP. The 2nd TP would of gotten a escape roll.
4 German subs attacking UK fleet of 2 dest 2 transports
2 german subs (WP) @5 FS rolls a 6,7 miss
2 german subs @5 rolls a 2,12 1 hit
UK takes dest casualty
UK 2 dest roll a 3,4 2 hits
Ger removes 2 subs for casualties.
1 ger sub (WP) @5 FS rolls a 9 miss
1 ger sub @5 rolls a 2 1 hit
** UK removes 1 dest left**
UK dest rolls a 3 1 hit
Ger removes a sub.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 2,10 1 hit ???
UK removes a transport
UK 1 left transport rolls a 8 for escape. Has to stay.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 9 miss
UK transport rolls a 11 no escape
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 3 1 hit
UK removes transport for casualty.In this case above, **if the second DD have been sunk by First strike rather than reg Sub attack, both TPs would have to roll, right?
Yes TPs would of rolled for escape before the 1 sub @5 attacks.
I know what you mean by rolling escape roll after attack roll to keep things more simple. But the 1 transport that did survive wouldn’t have survived unless it was an escape roll after attacking FS subs and before sub not FS attacked.**
Thanks.
That’s what I believed.
The only special case is, for example, when 2 Subs first strike (Wolf Pack) get only 1 hit on 1 DD and 2 TPs.
So, there is no other attack roll from Subs but does TPs get an escape roll for the on going round or not?
Does 2 TPs get there evade roll right away, even if at the beginning they were escorted by single DD?
Or have to wait until the end of second combat round, once 2 Subs first strike have rolled?
According to your first answer it is still a yes.
When TPs get unescorted during a combat round, they make an escape roll.
So, my other comment and proposal is still valid:
@Baron:
Having to separate between first strike roll and regular ones and decide if TPs are allowed to roll for escape is slowing the combat process, IMO.
Maybe this slightly different rule may solve this and still be according to your previous view:
TPs get evade rolls at the beginning of combat rounds before Subs first strike (same time as Subs submerge phase) but these rolls only begins at the start of second combat round.Escorted TPs can get this roll, not just unescorted.
(IMO, this is simpler, but the other way can be manageable too. If escorted at the start of a given combat round, there is no roll.)
You wrote this:
I know what you mean by rolling escape roll after attack roll to keep things more simple. But the 1 transport that did survive wouldn’t have survived unless it was an escape roll after attacking FS subs and before sub not FS attacked.
about this case:
Baron, The escaping transport rule every body liked a lot. Transports get a escape roll before attacker rolls for every round.
Except if subs have first strike it kills them first.3 German subs attacking UK 1 dest and 2 transports.
2 german subs (WP) attacking @5 FS Dice rolls 2 ger subs - rolled a 2, 11 1 hit
UK picks Dest as casualty. So now with the transports being alone on ships attacking ( 1 Ger Sub yet to attack )
lone transports they ea get a escape roll. 2 rolls = 2,12 1 transport gets to escape. Place on map.
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit 1 transport escapes and other has to stay for next round of combat.
3 Ger subs (WP) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.
In that case, the last subs would have get a roll, then all surviving TPs may roll at the beginning of second combat round.
In this special case, you get same results:
End of round 1
1 Ger sub @5 rolls a 6 no hit.
Next round, 2
All transports get an escape roll. 2 rolls = 2, 12 1 transport gets to escape. 1 TP is placed on map.
3 Ger subs (Wolf Pack) @5 FS roll a 4,9,12 1 hit 1 Transport casualty.
For the other case…
4 German subs attacking UK fleet of 2 dest 2 transports
2 german subs (WP) @5 FS rolls a 6,7 miss
2 german subs @5 rolls a 2,12 1 hit
UK takes dest casualty
UK 2 dest roll a 3,4 2 hits
Ger removes 2 subs for casualties.
1 ger sub (WP) @5 FS rolls a 9 miss
1 ger sub @5 rolls a 2 1 hit
** UK removes 1 dest left**
UK dest rolls a 3 1 hit
Ger removes a sub.
** 1 ger** sub @4 FS rolls a 2,10 1 hit ???
UK removes a transport
UK 1 left transport rolls a 8 for escape. Has to stay.
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 9 miss
UK transport rolls a 11 no escape
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 3 1 hit
UK removes transport for casualty.
Combat round 1
2 german subs (WP) @5 FS rolls a 6,7 miss
2 german subs @5 rolls a 2,12 1 hit
UK takes dest casualty
UK 2 dest roll a 3,4 2 hits
Ger removes 2 subs for casualties.
Combat round 2
Transport roll for escape: 2 rolls (not done according to your rule)
1 ger sub (WP) @5 FS rolls a 9 miss
1 ger sub @5 rolls a 2 1 hit
** UK removes 1 dest left**
UK dest rolls a 3 1 hit
Ger removes a sub.
Combat round 3
Transport roll for escape: 2 rolls (not done according to your rule)
** 1 ger** sub @4 FS rolls a 2 1 hit
UK removes a transport
UK 1 left transport rolls a 8 for escape. Has to stay.
Combat round 4
Transport roll for escape: 1 roll (it is the 8 done according to your rule)
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 9 miss
UK transport rolls a 11 no escape
Combat round 5
Transport roll for escape: 1 roll (it is the 11 done according to your rule)
1 ger sub @4 FS rolls a 3 1 hit
UK removes transport for casualty.
In this case, a different rule would have allowed 2 more rolls per TPs, since it take 5 combat rounds.
Allowing 4 evade phase for rolling.
IMO, my proposal is more forgiving for TP.
If use the variant which requires that TP is unescorted at the start of combat round, in the example above, it would be combat round 3 and you would get 1 additional roll because you still have 2 TPs before Subs first strike.
@Baron:
Thanks.
That’s what I believed.
The only special case is, for example, when 2 Subs first strike (Wolf Pack) get only 1 hit on 1 DD and 2 TPs.
So, there is no other attack roll from Subs but does TPs get an escape roll for the on going round or not?Yes if I understand you. The 2 TPs would get a 1st round combat escape roll and any rounds after that if subs keep missing TPs would keep getting a escape roll until all transports are dead or escaped.
Does 2 TPs get there evade roll right away, even if at the beginning they were escorted by single DD?
Or have to wait until the end of second combat round, once 2 Subs first strike have rolled?Yes Sub FS hit destroyer. Destroyer remove right away. Now transports alone. They get ea an escape roll.
According to your first answer it is still a yes.
When TPs get unescorted during a combat round, they make an escape roll.Yes
So, my other comment and proposal is still valid:
@Baron:Having to separate between first strike roll and regular ones and decide if TPs are allowed to roll for escape is slowing the combat process, IMO.
Maybe this slightly different rule may solve this and still be according to your previous view:
TPs get evade rolls at the beginning of combat rounds before Subs first strike (same time as Subs submerge phase) but these rolls only begins at the start of second combat round.Escorted TPs can get this roll, not just unescorted.
(IMO, this is simpler, but the other way can be manageable too. If escorted at the start of a given combat round, there is no roll.)
