US versus China for world position

@MrMalachiCrunch:

the Progressive Conservatives (why anyone would have an oxymoron as their name is beyond me but its historic!).

Hahaha… yeah, that is really odd.

@MrMalachiCrunch:

I see somebody gave you a thumbs down for saying this, I find that strange.  It seems to me to be factual and free of opinion much like stating 2+2=4.  I hope you don’t feel I am slandering the US by daring to mention the US by name as some seem to feel I am.  Perhaps i ought to speak in code, assign an alias for the US in order exist here……

I did not even notice that they did… but yes, I was trying to simply be factual and not throw my opinion in there. Certainly I could just start spewing my political guts, but that is not what this thread or these forums are about. I try to limit how much of my political opinion comes out. Though I will not shy away on principles.

Since you asked, and for the record, no, I do not feel as though you are slandering the US or in any way trying to demean Americans and their policies. I have not read all of the posts on this thread, but enough to realize that such is not your goal. I believe your sincerity in support for the US, why would any Canadian not want the US to prosper and be strong? (That is my thought) I would consider myself a patriotic American, and I can take a punch if someone really wants to give it. I can also deal them back in the American way. I have seen some people on these forums who really are more-or-less USA haters. Their loss.

To my fellow Americans here: good; defend our country when it is necessary, but don’t be too quick to get offended. The Canadians are our good friends and ally and the few I have met here (MMCrunch, Canuck and Garg) all seem to love the US in their own way. No need to make enemies over nothing.

Although, I really love hockey, so maybe I am a traitor.

If anything IL, you seem to HATE Canadians

NO. I ‘hate’ people who feel the best way to make their nation look better by slighting other nations in threads. How bout not constantly bring up threads that indirectly or directly make the US look the lessor? If the only way to love Canada to make it’s neighbor look bad?

…but don’t be too quick to get offended

Then don’t be so quick to make another “US is failing at this or that thread”

How is this thread designed to make the US look bad?  Its a force of nature that some nations rise in relative strength compared to others.

How bout LEAVE THE USA out of discussions. I don’t see threads about Canada falling behind some other country…its always the USA with you people…and nothing good. I am arguing that you only bring up USA and nobody else with the same three note tune.

I forgive you IL for insulting me and hope your negativness is about to fade a way…

You want for me to make a thread titled “All the bad things Canada and Canadians have done”.  I would gladly create such a thread if you would quit picking on myself in particular and Canadians in general.  Perhaps you will show up in Oshawa this April and tell me in person what your problems are with me man, love to see you in person.    I know when I see David again in person you will be a topic of conversation, best if you were there.

I said rather clearly that i see a pattern of Canadians bringing up threads where in some respect the US gets slammed or cast in a negative light. Just leave US out of it? I didn’t say make anti-Canadian threads, but pointed out that you don’t see other nations being constantly brought up in threads for the purpose of broadcasting past and present US "faults’.

It is a pattern and their is no denying it.

Canada is falling behind several countries in the world

And yet no threads on this, only US related ones.

and hope your negativeness is about to fade a way…

But defending against people taking shots at a country is somehow negative? I wish to only see these types of threads not be created. It does not matter which nation gets bashed, none of that should happen here. But it does.

And no i’m not picking on Canadians. Only saying the pattern shows that these threads mostly come from them. And BTW other people did complain about your thread. Did you read? (dinosaur)

I saw that too… which really made me wonder how nobody saw this coming earlier.

This I got to see. Should be drilling more so we can get it faster. Not to much of shelling. Then we can export it to China for more money andkeep are gas prices at 4.00 a gallon. Then we can payback the money we owe China. I knew it would all work out. Man I was gettin worried. Phew

@SS:

The other countries wanted Obama for 2nd term because he 's too soft on foreign politics. MPO.

All these other nations who want to run our political system should be compelled to pay our taxes.

They got the desired representation.  The POTUS should just send them the full bill.

If you feel you are so correct than create a poll with the Question “Is Malachi Anti-American”?  shrugs

You got me wrong again. I wish that no nation be slighted at any point, by any thread. In the past i was partial to taking a p�ss of France, but that is wrong. People who post here might be French and not take kindly to nation bashing. I am against any nation bashing on these boards. “bashing” might even be considered ‘slighting’ as well.

“Is Malachi Anti-American”?

I would never create such a thread, that would be trolling.

If you really did mean to say “Some Canadians harbour some anti-US sentiment” I would agree to that.

I am only pointing out that the vast majority of these “comparisons” where USA is always shown to be the lessor in the analysis, comes from a thread made by Canadian. Fact. I am not specifically saying they are all or partially Anti-American, just pointing out the facts as i see them.

On the original topic:

I don’t think China is interested in “world position” in the same way as the United States.

China doesn’t seem to involve itself in the affair of other nations outside of trade, while the US has far broader strategic/humanitarian/economic interests in the outside world.

China reminds me of old Soviet Union. They make all sorts of territorial claims that are bogus out of general national paranoia because they are so isolated. China went the direction of the isolationists back in the interwar period for US. Eventually, the economic model will not sustain itself and growth will decline because they burned many bridges with competing nations and have little more than cheap labor to show for success. Invention wise, they just ripoff somebody else by taking ideas and calling it their own. They can’t even build aircraft carriers. Just a land power nothing more.

@Imperious:

China reminds me of old Soviet Union. They make all sorts of territorial claims that are bogus out of general national paranoia because they are so isolated. They can’t even build aircraft carriers. Just a land power nothing more.

That doesn’t make them benign.

No, they are not interested in world influence the same way that the US is. The US is truly politically and economically global at the present time. China is really only economically global right now. Politically, they are creeping outward in Asia. Not saying they would not like to be the global political influence that the US is, because given the chance I am sure they would take it. And with the way the world is going, China will be politically powerful by controlling the world’s money and manufacture. So it will just happen differently than it did for the US.

The China’s way of thinking is very differnt from any west country way. You must understand our cultures is so different and with different values that we don’t both act in the same way giving the same events.

China is strongly based on Confucianism. Even if they might claim to not be, Confucianesm culture is so radicated in them that it affects their politics.

They have a different view of the government than us. Apparently more than 90% of China’s population approves the government. Wich other western country can claim the same?

In the history of China, China itself never really expanded through war (exception: mongols), after Chna’s unification they mostly expanded through culture.

They had the power to subdue many small states in Asia but they never did. They did indeed grow more paranoid after what the west did with them in the last 200 years (they were humiliated).

The point of the tread is that China will probably never race against anyone for world influence. But they will fof sure defende their influence around their area.

I sincerely wish Mao never existed, but if these communist are helping China affirming real indipendence from the west, I guess it is for their best.

@Noll:

They have a different view of the government than us. Apparently more than 90% of China’s population approves the government. Wich other western country can claim the same?

What authoritative states do not have high approval numbers from their citizens? When dissent can land you in prison, a camp or dead, most people would decide to approve of their government.  In contrast, most western nations are true democratic republics… not the misnomer that is a “people’s republic” or “democratic people’s republic”.

@LHoffman:

@Noll:

They have a different view of the government than us. Apparently more than 90% of China’s population approves the government. Wich other western country can claim the same?

What authoritative states do not have high approval numbers from their citizens? When dissent can land you in prison, a camp or dead, most people would decide to approve of their government.  In contrast, most western nations are true democratic republics… not the misnomer that is a “people’s republic” or “democratic people’s republic”.

There’s a difference thou’.

You’re judging it by western standards. Let me explain why it’s not just a matter of authoritative states with high (forced) approval when we talk about China.

Chinese people thinks of the governement in a different philosophical (and religious) way.

To them, the state is not just a “representative of a country”. To them, the state is like the head of a family. To them the Government is respected like it was your “daddy”. Also, in China respect for your family comes before any indivual desire. They have a GREAT respect to their parents, in a “religious” way. You can say that they pose the same respect to their parents that a western religious person pose for Christ. They’re -devote- to it.

At the base to the confucianesm there is a BIG respect for the State (Government), and the believe that all the decisions made by the head of the state are for the greater good. The same religion that gives them so much “trust power” is also the same religious that supports revolts.

In confucianism, the emperor/state is believed to have a “contract” with the gods that give them autority to reign. BUT this contract can be revocated at any time, if the people thinks that the emperor(government) is not working for the benefit of the people.

Let’s also remember that China was the FIRST PLACE in the world that believe in People’s Sovereignity. This happened in 220BC. At that time we still had Roman Republic (Then Empire), Aristocracy and such.

In China, from the 220BC even a farmer had the right to become a minister, an emperor! He just had to study, focus hard, and win statal exams.

The west (and then the rest of the world) was very late to the “people soveiregnity” idea, as late as 1789 (if you think on a larger scale, it was very recent).

If you ask 1000 Chineses, even outside of their country, 900 of them will tell you they approve their government.

If you like to get more information on the differences of cultures and kill some old clichés, I advice you to read a work issued by the USA government to the Anthropologist “Ruth Benedict” to depict the real differencies between USA and JAPAN during ww2. (And it’s very similar to what I said about the Chineses).